this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2024
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Look at this point I know more women with unrealistic relationship expectations than men.
The world has changed a ton in the past twenty years. There's been a lot of discussion about toxicity in regards to male gender roles, and fundamentals changes to what's acceptable for a man to expect in a relationship.
There hasn't really been that discussion in women. While many women have perfectly fair expectations, there are a lot of women who will expect a man to completely reject gendered expectations of them, while having a ton of expectations of a man. It's almost a joke among my single male friends that the more vocal someone is about being a feminist, the more likely they'll expect you to pay for the date.
There's also a subculture of women behaving in ways that would be considered objectively toxic a decade ago, but have been normalized due to the whole oppressor/oppressed culture war narrative. I've seen women bail on long term relationships in ways that are 100 percent because they just want to sleep around. I've seen women push their husband into an "ethically polyamaorous" relationship that always is extremely one sided. I've also seen a lot of women with an "I can do better" mentality that nobody in a relationship would have to put up with.
I'm not saying women are universally awful or anything. I'm just saying I think we need to have the same conversation around how women behave that we had in regards to how men behave.
Most of the dudes I know who aren't currently married just don't expect to have a relationship at all at this point in their lives (mostly middle age IT guys). The consensus is online dating isn't worth it to even bother with and it's hard AF to meet anyone in the real world so they focus on their hobbies and socialize with their bros instead. There's no animosity towards women and there are a few women that come out with us when we go to the bar but nobody is pursuing romance.
I mean, as a woman in my 30s, same. I'm not worried about it or anything, like if I meet someone that's great, but why stress over it? Dating is supposed to be fun. If you're stressing out, take a break. There's no rush. I say that knowing I only have so much time left to have kids, but again, stressing over it doesn't help
It sounds like we're on the same page.
My friends have better luck, but it's a constant grind. Also, as far as I can tell, a guy's chance of getting into a relationship is basically a thin proxy for how attractive he is. Meanwhile for women the chances seem to be proxy for a combination of genuine kindness and realistic expectations. Any women with remotely realistic expectations is off the market in six weeks flat.
You obviously aren't, but it speaks volumes all on its own that you felt there was a need to state that, only bolstering your other points about this one-sidedness.
Idk I basically stopped talking about this in mixed gender company in real life. My guy friends get it, my SO gets it, and a few close female friends get it. However most women I meet would treat a statement like this as an attack on them, even if they themselves aren't engaging in this type of behavior.
That literally what being a liberal male is like.
I'm too out of touch with toxic people (thankfully I don't know many), I'm unable to understand their reasoning
to the point that when you mentioned the "I can do better" mentality, my first thought was "I can do better to improve myself", but instead it's just shit about high or low value people
it's sad that someone genuinely believes the world revolves around them
Someone got cucked and is bitter about it 😂
Edit, y'all aren't realizing that no cheating is a 100% thing and this person is blaming one of the 2 victims regardless, you all just want to blame one person with no self-reflection.
No my SO is a wonderful woman who is a feminist in the sense that she does not enjoy any form of gender roles. That was extremely common when we first started dating. We are both pretty happy in our relationship.
My frustration comes from watching a lot of my guy friends struggle. Just because I'm not the one being cucked doesn't mean I appreciate seeing it in my social circles or appreciate seeing that behavior being defended.
Again, there's a lot of dialogue about how women need to stick up for other women. The idea that men have to be in it for themselves is ridiculous.
That being said, I would have every right to be bitter if my SO pressured me into an open relationship, and my friend group watched because a small amount of women were very supportive of the idea and nobody wanted to confront them. That's an extremely fucked up position to put anyone in.
As long as the woman is clear about it then your guy friends chasing that which cannot be caught is on them. Love is not a transaction and even if it was women have every right not to do business with people they don’t want to do business with.
In your example if your SO wanted an open relationship and you didn’t then that is when you say “if this is a deal breaker for both of us then we had a good run but I’m sorry.” It sucks, sure, but if you turn around and tell her that she can’t do what feels right to her then all you’re doing is using the relationship to pressure her into monogamy. It doesn’t fucking matter how popular or rare an idea is because you and your SO are individuals and have your own, individual needs. I mean christ, in your example you’re mad because a minority of women are supportive of her choice and that somehow makes it wrong? Do you hear yourself?
Again, my SO has never shown interest in "ethnical non monogamy". She was actually a lot quicker to pass judgment on the subject when it first entered the public zeitgeist. I came to my conclusions about ethnical non monogamy after meeting people who practiced that IRL and watching their relationships implode. My SO would make it clear that she doesn't approve of that lifestyle and didn't want to make any moves to form direct friendships with them as opposed to simply being in the same social circle.
Are you in a relationship?
You offerer a hypothetical, I continued it.
I was in one, it was open, and while the openess was never really explored it was not at all a component in the ending of said relationship. In fact, I enjoyed that we could trust each other and have conversations with nuance about the topic.
The lady I’m crushin’ on right now has had to move away for going back to school so we’re keeping it friends until she comes back in the summer and even then it’ll need to be casual since she’s gotta go back after. In this case I’m not concerned with what is her business and she’s not concerned with what is my business, we just like each other and that’s that.
Regardless, I don’t need to be actively in a relationship to call out your nonsense and you’re dodging the question. C’mon, bud, do better.
A lot of words to say that you're not in a committed relationship.
This is basic relationship stuff. Also if you're in a longer term relationship, bailing for the sole purpose of fucking around is beyond shitty. manipulating your partner so you can fuck around while still having their emotional support is even worse.
All of this is very well understood when a man is shitty to a women. Yet when the reverse is true there's a million different excuses that pour out of the woodwork.
I've never seen a successful open relationship. It always ends poorly, it always comes out that the man felt pressured, and it always comes out that part of the reason they let themselves suffer for this long is because everyone else acted like this was normal. The only time I've ever "met" someone in a successful open relationship is online, where there's absolutely no context.
Lol this is toxic masculinity, do some research.
It is in no way shape or form toxic masculinity to want to be in a monogamous relationship. It is also not toxic masculinity to expect your partner won't bail to screw other dudes, or think that your partner pushing for an "ethical" non monogamous relationship after years of monogamy is anything but ethnical.
We wouldn't even be having this conversation if genders were flipped. You're basically attempting to weaponize feminism to justify the mistreatment of men.
Feminism applies to both genders, how would switching genders change anything?
Fuck off you know the difference between denotation and connotation. There's a reason why you don't see feminists ever taking about "toxic femininity" or wearing apparel that says shit like "female tears".
And yet I’ve seen plenty of successful ones. Not everyone’s needs and desires align and you’re just going to have to get ovee that. You’re also whining about being pressured while actively trying to imply that people who want an open relationship should shut up and stick with monogamy. We call that “being a hypocrit”.
But I doubt you give a shit.
Again, not pressured. Seen other guys pressured, and seen them suffer.
I've seen people claim open relationships are working in exactly two scenarios:
You’re really dodging my entire point here. You’re trying to use generic, anecdotal “evidence” to tell individuals that they shouldn’t expect something and should just do it your way.
And I’ve seen plenty of my actual friends go into them being clear about it from the start, communicating fully, and everyone party to it also knowing that a relationship ending naturally is not “falling apart”.
Yes, monogamy is simple and doesn’t require near the same levels of trust and communication(though it fuckin’ should). As a general statement we’re all pretty emotionally stunted and people trying something like that out without the skills to pay the bills are going to have a bad time. On an individual level there are absolutely people who can, and do, handle it really well. All the people I know who participate in open relationships are very emotionally intelligent, honest, and understanding people so it’s no small wonder that they can hack it where others struggle.
No one is asking you to be in an open relationship and it’s totally valid to not want to be in one. You can be all those nice things I mentioned and still prefer monogamy, too.
Every time I abided by an open relationship ,I was just enabling a super shitty situation. My friends have similar experiences.
You claim that I'm relying on anecdotal evidence, but so are you. I don't see why your comment is in any way more valid than my comment.
But hey have fun with your girlfriend having sex with other dudes, most likely with a lot more ease than you can have sex with other women. If you're really super secure in your way of life, then my disapproval shouldn't bother you.
I’m countering your anecdotal evidence with my own, and between us I’m not the one trying to limit people to one or the other.
You got some shit to work through that we won’t fix today but I hope you get to it eventually, genuinely.
Jesus Christ the projection. If you think everyone who has an issue with open relationships is mentally unsound, you're gonna have to fix the vast majority of the country.
I said that monogamy can hide issues, and that people are totally able to be emotionally intelligent and secure while preferring to be monogamous. You’re not so good at this “reading” thing, are ya?
And ya know what, we’ve seen plenty of examples of people being pretty shitty, on purpose or not, and could really use people getting better. There are a LOT of people who support Donald Trump, are we going to argue that sheer numbers makes them correct?
So, yea, we do have a lot to fix. Sticking our heads in the sand and pretending nothing is wrong isn’t a solution, you coward.
Have fun with your SO and your brother-husbands.
…right.
Are you, like, ok?
What a colossally callous and heartless thing to say.
Being cheated on is a horrendous betrayal. "Bitter" is the least on the list of absolutely justified emotions to feel in response to that.
Flip the roles here
“Someone got cheated on and is bitter about it”
Makes it more clear how much of a prick you’re being