What’s the purpose of it? Capitalism would not collapse if Hexbear.net remained revolutionary. And goat was right, it wasn’t a matter of direct resources that you needed from that instance. He said, “Domain is not the question.” I mean, that was Hexbear’s biggest assets, we could get perfectly good assets from others, you don’t need Hexbear’s domain. So why did they attack Hexbear? They attacked Hexbear because they were serving notice to the people of the Lemmyverse, and to the people of fediverse, and to the netizens of the world, that you cannot drop out of your reactionary proprietary system. That if you tried to take an independent source, and that if you use your posts, your peertube, your domain, and your capital, and your politics in a different way, in a tankie way, if you use them to benefit the needs of your people, rather than to be milked like a cow for foreign investors, if you do that, this is what’s going to happen to you.

:parenti-hands:

Apparently the original post was deleted so I had to get his comment back from source, something about libs or crypto bros from lemmyverse tryin steal our domain

I saw this infuriating meme again in 2024 so I will put down a response in case anybody will see this late reply. My answer would be no, at least probably not under the assumption of an evil guy in relation to capital exploitation and consequent violence. Of course ontology means different thing across different areas of study, so if you're speaking theologically then sure idk whatever. But when talking a aspects of social science: society, class, race, or things in relation to being in those things like capital or when people say "black and brown bodies" (a term often butchered) then you have to, bare minimum, separate the job of "nestle executive" (relating to class and capital) and the individual. IIRC I think the easiest and common example to approach ontology might be indentured servants vs slavery in the Caribbeans during the slave trade. Despite these 2 classes being treated similarly in labour on the surface, the important aspect of their difference is that indentured servant receives some pennies and the slave, none. This minute difference cyclically reinforces and shapes the difference of the slave class, in this case reinforcing+shaping the very big ontological difference of how the slave is (not my words of course) lesser than human (this already existed obv, but now another additional reinforcing reality being created), and the indentured servant still human. From a modern perspective we might be tempted to think "then wouldnt they be pretty similar?", but from within that world it would bethat they can only be closer, the difference of that one penny and zero is an infinite, unpassable, boundary. The ontology would be all that encapsulates the essence of being something and in many cases that something might be purposefully related to a physical attribute but it doesn't necessarily have to actually be that attribute itself. For example, again in the caribbean during slave trade. Does being an African mean you are a slave? No, never, absolutely not. But in some point of that slave-trading society, somehow the truth was Yes, absolutely within that world. It might be said that the understanding of ontology is used as a tool to understand and study things while giving proper context to these "truths". A indentured servant or a slave isn't gonna just stand up and be like "hey I'm free now" out of nowhere at least, as these "truths" are ingrained into everyone and everything in that society. Someone thinking shallowly might say like "isn't that just the same as social construct" or whatever and yes these also fall under the vague definition of social construct. But the focus of this is that because these ideas are "true" within that society, this kind of subliminally (probably not the best term to describe but im tired) influences the production of knowledge, of how people understand and, in some ways, literally see the world and consequentially everything that they do as well. Like when people talk about looking at a chair, but its just a thing that you're deciding whether or not to assign the concept of a chair on without much conscious thought, there's an entire "real" imagined social world that we see in everything. The ontologies lie in that imagined yet real world attached to the physical one. So probably no if you're talking from a social philosophical perspective about the nature of a violent money grubbing individual which I think most people are imagining. For the reason that its just that guy that sucks, maybe even all of them drawn into that position suck, but it's not by some unique and immutable position of social existence the guy inhabits that makes him such a way. is he evil? yes. Is he ontologically evil? no, not necessarily.

A quick guide to Israeli PR:

1. We haven't heard reports of deaths; will check into it
2. The people were killed, but by a faulty Palestinian rocket/bomb
3. OK we killed them, but they were terrorists
4. OK they were civilians, but they were being used as human shields
5. OK there were no fighters in the area, so it was our mistake. But we kill civilians by accident, they do it on purpose
6. OK we kill far more civilians than they do, but look at how terrible other countries are!
7. Why are you still talking about Israel? Are you some kind of anti-semite?

Okay, long story short: I know how hard-left this sub is, and I'm pretty much to the left myself. I can't stand crooked law enforcement. I fiercely support Black Lives, and I think we need reform badly. But I happen to enjoy some movies/shows/games that have police characters. And I'm getting beyond fed up seeing a certain movie (Zootopia) that impacted me so much get attacked from the let in this manner. Basically, I don't agree with how some in the hard left keep holding it up as "cop propaganda" or "fascist", which it isn't, and people accusing it of "getting racial allegories wrong" when in reality, the movie is an allegory for prejudice as a whole. Like, I don't find crap like this funny. I find it infuriating. Because it's not true. https://i.redd.it/0qy9v4on7gs31.jpg Some hard leftists accuse the film of missing the mark because the "predators" evolved from eating prey mammals to eating fish and bugs. That's not meant to symbolize anything in real life, it's just something that happened with those animals in a kids' movie. It doesn't clash with the movie's messaging at all. It's not "police apologism" because the police department is depicted as inept in many ways, and the story contains a moral against unfair profiling. Now for some reason, the "NP" link option isn't working, but I discussed this before in BreadTube and CompleteAnarchy. I'm asking you how you feel about this because I once encountered a thread in this sub mocking Judy Hopps, doing the whole "ACAB" thing, and I was legit upset by it. If you think I'm some kind of idiot, weirdo or loser for getting so emotional about a movie aimed at kids that's part of a big corporation that's your right. But people have been sharing "Judy's a pig, smash the state" memes in the Zootopia sub. And as someone who can't watch certain scenes in the movie without crying my eyes out, they really bothered me and I didn't think they were fair at all.

I don't usually use forums or Hexbear, I usually just post comments on  patriotic streamers like Infrared or Haz, but they didn't seem appropriate places to post my story. So here goes, I just wanted to share this with all of you.

Nov 3 I flew to colorado for a great American road trip type tour. Not a guide or packaged deal, just going around by myself. I paid for half of the trip with the wages I earned over the last two years, my dad paid for the other half. I am 19, I guess that is normal starting college and all. (Before that I worked for my dad's company part time, so I guess you could say he paid for all of it, lol).

I did Wyoming and Nebraska, then south Dakota through Minnesota and then Wisconsin next. I am a Patriotic Socialist so I wanted to see patriots in these places. Yes, I know they are different kinds of "patriots" and not really full patriots like us. I went to an patriotic book store in Wyoming and it had a lot of American iconography, but no Browder or Maupin. Like I said, I expected that, not a surprise.

I went to Wisconsin, which everyone knows is famous for its  patriotism, its cheese and everything going on right now. Here I found directions for a local patriotic bar. I went and didn't see anybody, but it was covered in graffiti, mostly about yoopers so I couldn't read it. Whatever, I started taking pictures. Then some people came out and confronted me.

This should have been my first warning sign something was not right, because photography is not a crime. They were not violent, but they were not friendly, like asking who I was, what I wanted. They all spoke good English actually. Not uncommon in Wisconsin. I said I was a tourist and an patriot and I just wanted to take pictures. Then they got friendly and told me I should have asked first (but pictures are no NAP violation so I don't know why, but I didn't say anything) and they invited me inside.

We hung out for a while and smoked hash (there is no good dank in the midwest as you might find out like in Cali, everyone smokes hash with tobacco which isn't as cool as it sounds). We started talking about politics and patriotism. I was trying to talk about America, they were like yeah no doubt America is the best. But they wanted to talk about capitalism, capitalism this and that. This is when we started to get into a debate.

I told them that what they called patriotism is different from patriotic socialism. They said patriotism is loving america. And I said I agreed. That is what I am saying. Real patriotism is socialism. And they said yes, that is what we are trying to get rid of. And I said no, but we don't even have that right now. We need more socialism. And everyone at the same time was like "nooo" we are patriots, we are against socialism. Patriots oppose socialism.

And I said but not patriotic-socialists. Patriotic-socialists are the patriots who support socialism. I had a fanny pack (yeah, lame I know) for my camera and in that I had this red, white and blue bowtie (also super lame, it was a joke but I wasnt wearing it). And I said look, these are the Anerican colors, red white and blue, like versus the communist red and black. Well, these guys had a lot of red , white and blue in the building already so I thought they would get it.

I think that is when it started to get a really bad vibe, really tense in the air. The patriotism vs socialism thing was funny, we disagreed but I think they thought I was just confused. Everyone was uncomfortable now. Then someone said socialism wont work with democracy. And I said exactly, that's it, democracy is against patriotism. And they kind of agreed, and said yes, we don't have real democracy, just governments, and we needed more democracy. I said no, we need less democracy, democracy is the enemy. And we need to end democracy to have america. Then they were all like "noooo" again. You know that thing people do in groups when everyone all says "nooo" or expresses some disapproval at the same time.

And one of them said "but we do want to stop the government" and then they kind of spoke back and forth. I didn't really understand it. And they asked me what I meant.

So I said okay, I had the floor, I was going to tell them about patriotic socialism. And I tried to explain to them some browder and Haz. I said the natural order in anerica is that the best rise to the top, the market picks who is the best. They compete and are peaceful. They said what do we want instead of america. I said we want  workers to control their own land and businesses. They said that is what we have now. I said no, it would be even better. One of the guys said it was like Authoritarianism. And I said it is not Authoritarianism.

Eventually one of the guys spoke up and I thought he was German, but he spoke English perfectly so he may have not been. He said he knew what patriotic-socialism was and that we were basically fascists. He asked me if I thought everything should be collectively owned. And I said yes. And he asked me if I thought people were equal. And I told him yes. And that everyone would have equal rights. I said everyone has the right to live in america and not be done aggression against. But that everyone had to be treated equally without owners. He said what about immigrants and antifa. And I said that would not happen in patriotic socialism, but yes property owners could immigrate here if they wanted to. They had to respect america.

Then he called me a fascist again, and someone else said I was a antifa. And then they basically all started shouting libtard at me, and one of them grabbed me by the wrists. They pulled me out the door, it was up three floors, and basically drug me down the stairs on my back. It hurt really bad and I remember yelling "you're hurting a fellow patriot" and things like that. "I love America with all my heart" Then they kicked me around on the ground in the hallway, before they took my camera and threw me outside. I was crying and stuff, I just sat there. I was in shock because it was so sudden. Looking back there were warning signs though.

I think they felt bad for me and gave the camera back, but when I looked later they stole the memory card with all of my wospconsin photos.

So they initiated force and theft. They broke the NAP. I knew the nationalists were not real patriots, but I never knew they would do something that bad.

I wasnt seriously hurt, just kicked around a little, lots of bruises and little cuts. I am fine guys so don't worry. Just needed to share.

I don't usually use forums or Reddit, I usually just post comments on Ancap blogs like Molyneux or Cantwell's blog, but they didn't seem appropriate places to post my story. So here goes, I just wanted to share this with all of you.

Nov 3 I flew to Europe for a Eurotrip type tour. Not a guide or packaged deal, just going around by myself. I paid for half of the trip with the wages I earned over the last two years, my dad paid for the other half. I am 19, I guess that is normal starting college and all. (Before that I worked for my dad's company part time, so I guess you could say he paid for all of it, lol).

I did France and then Italy and then Greece next. I am an Ancap so I wanted to see anarchists in these places. Yes, I know they are different kinds of "anarchists" and not really full anarchists like us. I went to an anarchist book store in Italy and it had a lot of English books, but no Rothbard or Ancap. Like I said, I expected that, not a surprise.

I went to Greece, which everyone knows is famous for its revolutionary anarchism, its economic crisis and everything going on right now. Here I found directions for a local anarchist center. I went and didn't see anybody, but it was covered in graffiti, mostly in Greek so I couldn't read it. Whatever, I started taking pictures. Then some people came out and confronted me.

This should have been my first warning sign something was not right, because photography is not a crime. They were not violent, but they were not friendly, like asking who I was, what I wanted. They all spoke good English actually. Not uncommon in Greece. I said I was a tourist and an anarchist and I just wanted to take pictures. Then they got friendly and told me I should have asked first (but pictures are no NAP violation so I don't know why, but I didn't say anything) and they invited me inside.

We hung out for a while and smoked hash (there is no good dank in Europe as you might find out like in Cali, everyone smokes hash with tobacco which isn't as cool as it sounds). We started talking about politics and anarchism. I was trying to talk about the state, they were like yeah no doubt the state was bad. But they wanted to talk about capitalism, capitalism this and that. This is when we started to get into a debate.

I told them that what they called capitalism is different from the free market. They said capitalism is free markets. And I said I agreed. That is what I am saying. Real capitalism is free markets. And they said yes, that is what we are trying to get rid of. And I said no, but we don't even have that right now. We need more free markets. And everyone at the same time was like "nooo" we are anarchists, we are against capitalism. Anarchists oppose capitalism.

And I said but not anarcho-capitalists. Anarcho-capitalists are the anarchists who support capitalism. I had a fanny pack (yeah, lame I know) for my camera and in that I had this yellow and black bowtie (also super lame, it was a joke but I wasnt wearing it). And I said look, these are the Ancap colors, yellow and black, like versus the communist red and black. Well, these guys had a lot of red and black in the building already so I thought they would get it.

I think that is when it started to get a really bad vibe, really tense in the air. The free market thing was funny, we disagreed but I think they thought I was just confused. Everyone was uncomfortable now. Then someone said markets wont work with democracy. And I said exactly, that's it, democracy is against anarchism. And they kind of agreed, and said yes, we don't have real democracy, just governments, and we needed more democracy. I said no, we need less democracy, democracy is the enemy. And we need to end democracy to have anarchy. Then they were all like "noooo" again. You know that thing people do in groups when everyone all says "nooo" or expresses some disapproval at the same time.

And one of them said "but we do want to stop democracy" and then they kind of spoke back and forth in Greek. I didn't really understand it. And they asked me what I meant.

So I said okay, I had the floor, I was going to tell them about ancapism. And I tried to explain to them some Rothbard and Hoppe. I said the natural order in anarchy is that the best rise to the top, the market picks who is the best. They compete and are peaceful. They said what do we want instead of anarchy. I said we want private owners to own their own land and businesses, and to employ people. They said that is what we have now. I said no, it would be even better. One of the guys said it was like feudalism. And I said it is not feudalism.

Eventually one of the guys spoke up and I thought he was Greek, but he spoke English perfectly so he may have not been. He said he knew what anarcho-capitalism was and that we were basically fascists. He asked me if I thought everything should be private. And I said yes. And he asked me if I thought people were unequal. And I told him yes. And that not everyone would have equal rights. I said everyone has the right to own property and not be done aggression against. But that not everyone had to be treated equally by the owners. He said what about immigrants and racism. And I said that would not happen in a free market, but yes property owners could be racist if they wanted to. They had to respect property.

Then he called me a fascist again, and someone else said I was a fascist. And then they basically all started shouting fascist at me, and one of them grabbed me by the wrists. They pulled me out the door, it was up three floors, and basically drug me down the stairs on my back. It hurt really bad and I remember yelling "you're breaking the NAP" and things like that. "Stop initiating force against me." Then they kicked me around on the ground in the hallway, before they took my camera and threw me outside. I was crying and stuff, I just sat there. I was in shock because it was so sudden. Looking back there were warning signs though.

I think they felt bad for me and gave the camera back, but when I looked later they stole the memory card with all of my Greek photos.

So they initiated force and theft. They broke the NAP. I knew the left anarchists were not real anarchists, but I never knew they would do something that bad.

I wasnt seriously hurt, just kicked around a little, lots of bruises and little cuts. I am fine guys so don't worry. Just needed to share.