this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2025

479 points (99.8% liked)

Canada

8928 readers

1775 users here now

What's going on Canada?

Related Communities

🍁 Meta

🗺️ Provinces / Territories

🏙️ Cities / Local Communities

Sorted alphabetically by city name.

🏒 Sports

Hockey

Football (NFL): incomplete

Football (CFL): incomplete

Baseball

Toronto Blue Jays

Basketball

Toronto Raptors

Soccer

Main: /c/CanadaSoccer
Toronto FC

💻 Schools / Universities

Sorted by province, then by total full-time enrolment.

💵 Finance, Shopping, Sales

🗣️ Politics

General:
- Canada Politics
- FairVote Canada
Federal Parties (alphabetical):
- Animal Protection Party of Canada
- NDP
By Province (alphabetical):
- BC Greens

🍁 Social / Culture

Rules

Keep the original title when submitting an article. You can put your own commentary in the body of the post or in the comment section.

Reminder that the rules for lemmy.ca also apply here. See the sidebar on the homepage: lemmy.ca

founded 4 years ago

MODERATORS

otter@lemmy.ca

mp3@lemmy.ca

479

Carney orders review of F-35 fighter jet purchase from U.S.’s Lockheed Martin (www.ctvnews.ca)

submitted 1 day ago by HellsBelle@sh.itjust.works to c/canada@lemmy.ca

80 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Prime Minister Mark Carney has asked for a review of Canada’s plan to purchase a fleet of F-35 fighter jets.

The deal with Lockheed Martin and the U.S. government is for 88 planes at a cost of about US$85 million each.

A spokesperson for Defence Minister Bill Blair said Carney has asked Blair to look into whether the F-35 contract is the best investment for Canada, or if there are better options.

“We need to do our homework given the changing environment, and make sure that the contract in its current form is in the best interests of Canadians and the Canadian Armed Forces,” Blair’s press secretary Laurent de Casanove said.

(page 2) 33 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 17 points 21 hours ago

Messing with the military industrial complex is not the smartest move for Trump. All that will do is turn the military against him.

[–] nao@sh.itjust.works 20 points 23 hours ago

maybe don't rely on fighter jets than can possibly be disabled remotely by someone talking about invading you

[–] DogPeePoo@lemm.ee 16 points 23 hours ago

Lockheed Martin — ”We specialize in destroying the lives of brown people, come fly with us”

[–] kbal@fedia.io 2 points 22 hours ago (5 children)

For the $70 billion it would apparently cost in total to have these super fancy fighter jets, they could instead build a million new low-cost housing units and still have some money left over to work on inventing innovative air defence systems that aren't so expensive..

load more comments (5 replies)

[–] aviationeast@lemmy.world 1 points 23 hours ago

Gonna need a tariff...

[+] Grimpen@lemmy.ca -11 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (5 children)

F-35 is the most advanced aircraft currently available. We've also already sunk enough money into the program to pay for the first 16 IIRC. This puts us in an awkward position, considering the possibility of degraded functionality of the F-35 without US assistance^1^.

One of the worst ways to balloon military spending without getting anything in return is to keep changing your mind and hanging procurement up in endless indecision. Combined with the money already spent, I think we have to stick with F-35 for at least a bit.

I like the Gripen, and I'd suggest a switching some of our 88 fighters to Gripen's, but apparently Gripen's aren't that much cheaper.

Long term though, I think Canada should get in on GCAP, the Global Combat Air Program. It's not expected to deliver until 2035 if everything sticks to plan, so we'd still need the F-35 or Gripens I was mentioning in the interim.

^1^ My understanding is that the "kill-switch" myth is pretty much that, a myth. There are software systems that depend on the US, apparently ALIS/ODIN, plus the MDF file updates. The possibility of a kill-switch can't be totally excluded IMO though, there is a lot of software in the F-35, and the US writes and patches it all. Even if there isn't a kill-switch, the US knows what vulnerabilities they are patching, and if any of them where exploitable, I'd imagine they'd know.

[–] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 19 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Saab is offering to move part of the production to Canada, Trump might prevent US defense contractors from having facilities outside the US... So... Yeah

[–] Grimpen@lemmy.ca 8 points 20 hours ago

This is one of the reasons I really liked the Saab offer. Supporting a domestic aerospace defence industry is probably a good strategic aim.

GCAP would also offer a chance to foster our domestic aerospace industry.

There are other combinations that achieve much the same though. FCAS (Future Combat Air System) is similar to GCAP, a joint France, Germany and Spain project, but it isn't scheduled to deliver until 2040.

I am in no position to know what's "best", but it's undeniable that there are some good options. It's unfortunate though that there will be a cost to pay that we went with F-35 all those years ago. Still don't have a Canadian F-35 in the air.

Another piece of trivia, that I really don't know if significant is that Sweden nearly joined GCAP. If we went with Gripen and GCAP, and Sweden rejoined GCAP there might be opportunities for long term partnerships. Then again I think there are similar opportunities with Eurofighter and FCAS.

[–] Greg@lemmy.ca 16 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

F-35 is the most advanced aircraft currently available

As long as you can service and maintain them. Without a reliable supply chain for parts and servicing, they’re just expensive decorations.

[–] bulwark@lemmy.world 14 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Absolutely. This is the true "kill switch". Turning off support for most US made weapons means killing them.

[–] Fluke@lemm.ee 7 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

As I've said elsewhere the ECM pod updates can only be done by US staff. Without this week's pod frequencies to hit the latest radar frequencies, the plane is a liability in the air because of it's cost.

There is no way the US is going to code "enemy" planes' ECM.

The F-35 program may well flatline from this upset.

[–] bulwark@lemmy.world 5 points 19 hours ago

Uncle Sam keeps his ECM frequencies under a pretty tight lock and key, speaking as someone who's had to service ALQ-99 pods.

[–] Fluke@lemm.ee 6 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

The key thing you're missing here is that the programming of the ECM pod, the thing that makes the F-35 able to do what it does, the thing it's just an average 6th gen fighter without, is only done by US personnel.

Even if you could make the entire plane locally, parts wise, the US will not ever give out the pod code. Ever.

Because without it, the plane is worth less than nothing, it's a liability.

[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 6 points 22 hours ago

F-35 is the most advanced aircraft currently available

in west, but it may also be too advanced as root cause of its reliability and maintenance cost problems.

sunk enough money into the program to pay for the first 16

should demand refund for those 16.

apparently Gripen’s aren’t that much cheaper.

$85m vs $109m is a fair bit cheaper. Again, the maintenance costs and flight readiness metrics matter significantly.

There are software systems that depend on the US, apparently ALIS/ODIN, plus the MDF file updates.

We don't need to focus on whether there is a "mid air kill switch or not", when we know there is a "make this a paper weight switch". Naive or disingenuous of you to say "if Lockheed finds a kill switch, they would surely patch it out"

[–] supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 5 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

Also, even without any malicious back doors it is still likely far easier to attack the software and electronic vulnerabilities of the aircraft as you said.

load more comments