this post was submitted on 16 Mar 2025
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Germany's foreign intelligence service believed there was a 80-90% chance that coronavirus accidentally leaked from a Chinese lab, German media say. Two German newspapers say they have uncovered details of an assessment carried out by spy agency BND in 2020 but never published.

The intelligence service had indications that the Wuhan Institute of Virology had been carrying out experiments where viruses are modified to become more transmissible to humans for research, they say.

China repeated its denial saying the cause "should be determined by scientists" - and pointed to a World Health Organization investigation which found the lab-leak theory was "extremely unlikely".

The lab leak hypothesis has been hotly contested by scientists, including many who say there is no definitive evidence to back it up. But the once controversial theory has been gaining ground among some intelligence agencies - and the BND is the latest to entertain the theory. In January, the US CIA said the coronavirus was "more likely" to have leaked from a lab than to have come from animals.

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[–] clarinet_estimator@lemm.ee 12 points 11 hours ago

Are we seriously back on this again?

[–] afronaut@slrpnk.net 12 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

We’re supposed to trust spies working for nation-states that support Israel?

[–] Coding4Fun@lemmy.ml 11 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Although I think the support to Israel (which I am against too) does not play a role in the sake of this argument, I agree with you: it independent scientists couldn't find scientific evidences to support that, spies are for sure not reliable.

[–] afronaut@slrpnk.net 6 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

Okay, thank you for getting that. In retrospect, I can see how my comment might be perceived as potentially antisemitic but, I’m coming from an anti-imperialist perspective. And, the West is going to keep flooding us with anti-East and anti-Middle East propaganda.

So, to me, Germany’s support of Israel and their demonization of China is one and the same.

[–] Inucune@lemmy.world 8 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Not every news article and decision on the world revolves around Israel and/or Gaza.

[–] afronaut@slrpnk.net 11 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

My point is we shouldn’t be trusting spy agencies working on behalf of nation states at all, which includes pushing geopolitical narratives with the aim of Western supremacy.

“The past was alterable. The past never had been altered. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia.” -1984

[–] lorty@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 13 hours ago

Oh look, fake news to make China look bad!

[–] Jimius@lemmy.ml 6 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

Lab leaks/accidents are fairly common. This didn't require some malicious intent or a "perfect storm" of events to occur. There are like 1 or 2 every year, that we know of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laboratory_biosecurity_incidents

A study investigated and saw the following from 2000 to 2021 (https://www.chathamhouse.org/laboratory-accidents-and-biocontainment-breaches/scale-problem-today):

"... identified laboratory-acquired infections in 309 individuals, documented in 94 incident reports covering 51 pathogens of varying degrees of hazard. Some of these infections were fatal, and some resulted in the spread of laboratory workers’ infections to others in the community. In addition, the researchers identified 16 incidents of pathogen escape from biocontainment facilities during the period."

And that's not even including all the smaller incidents which adds up to about a hundred a year.

So a lab leak is not only plausible, it's very likely. It requires no malice or conspiracy. And Wuhan actually has a lab that was studying the COVID virus. The communist party however has already covered up, so actual evidence is hard to get.

[–] Dogyote@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 hours ago

And Wuhan actually has a lab that was studying the COVID virus.

Ya got a source for that one?

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 hours ago

The communist party however has already covered up, so actual evidence is hard to get.

Yet somehow you know about it?

[–] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

The communist party however has already covered up

The conspiracy theory here is this.

[–] doubtingtammy@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 hours ago

Who needs peer-reviewed science when you can just listen to western spy agencies?

[–] Jimius@lemmy.ml -4 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

Not at all. It's the CCP's MO. They probably didn't even know where it exactly came from. But started covering up anyway. It's a common theme. There was a chinese kindergarten, and rumours got around that the military was abusing the children in a basement. Instead denying it and starting an investigation, the government censored the whole thing, ordered parents to stay quiet and completely shut down the school. In the end it was just rumours, no evidence was ever found. But just in case they start covering up, almost as a reflex.

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 hours ago

And you came into possession of this suppressed information how exactly?

[–] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 12 hours ago

Cool campfire story

[–] wurzelgummidge@lemmy.ml 50 points 1 day ago (1 children)

But the once controversial theory has been gaining ground among some intelligence agencies

ie someone at the CIA who wont put their name to it, and a couple of corporate owned German newspapers who they fed it to

[–] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 7 hours ago

Only because the propaganda arms got defunded, but the CIA, the biggest one, didn't.

[–] NatakuNox@lemmy.world 46 points 1 day ago

It doesn't matter where it came from! It doesn't change the fact that the government and corporations left us die, then they picked over our carcasses.

[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 33 points 1 day ago (1 children)

They keep "believing" that's what happened because they have not presented any concrete evidence that can be used to get rid of that qualifier.

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[–] wittycomputer@feddit.org 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Remember when hinting at this would get you banned from Youtube? Good times

[–] slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org 6 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

You can't even say dead or killed or rape on youtube.

[–] wisely@feddit.org 5 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah makes me not want to watch anything on there. Wife was watching some true crime and I was so confused on why they kept saying essay (SA) and grape.

[–] stray@pawb.social 1 points 2 hours ago

Can you please censor ess*y in the future so that it'll be more difficult for me to filter automatically and actually make me way more likely to get triggered? Thanks.

[–] Bloomcole@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

"Germany’s foreign intelligence" LOL
And who wouldn't trust the BBC mouthpiece?

[–] mlg@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago

BBC

Go back to sleep, this is just repeat cope for failing to handle a pandemic and shifting the blame to another country.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: misinformation

What, we’re supposed to remove UK state-affiliated media articles about German state intelligence assessments?

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 day ago

They are so well trained that even when their own governments retroactively admit they lied, they will not believe it and still say lab leak is a conspiracy theory.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

The SARS-CoV-2 gain of function research was going on under Fauci’s watch.

Jeffrey Sachs:

[–] sittinonatoilet@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 day ago

Two German newspapers say they have uncovered details of an assessment carried out by spy agency BND in 2020 but never published.

But the once controversial theory has been gaining ground among some intelligence agencies - and the BND is the latest to entertain the theory.