this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023

537 points (99.6% liked)

196

16453 readers

1787 users here now

Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.

Rule: You must post before you leave.

^other^ ^rules^

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

moss@lemmy.blahaj.zone

greembow@lemmy.blahaj.zone

moss@lemmy.world

queue@beehaw.org

funky_rodent@lemmy.blahaj.zone

PeachyMcPeachface@lemmy.blahaj.zone

threegnomes@lemmy.blahaj.zone

greembow@lemmy.world

remotelove@lemmy.ca

Roflmasterbigpimp@feddit.de

qaz@lemmy.world

A_Very_Big_Fan@lemm.ee

qaz@lemmy.blahaj.zone

A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.world

qaz@lemmy.dbzer0.com

qaz@sh.itjust.works

qaz@lemmy.sdf.org

537

for fucks sake rule (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 year ago by Zekas@lemmy.world to c/196@lemmy.blahaj.zone

38 comments fedilink hide all child comments

all 47 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone 175 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Maybe, just maybe, killing houndreds of civilians who have nothing to do with settlements and can easily be against their government will not help your revolutionary goal?

Hamas is not a revolutionary organization, it is a far right, fundamentalist terrorist organization.

[–] vivadanang@lemm.ee 77 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The fuckwits murdered people who fought so hard for Palestinian rights. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/10/world/middleeast/peace-activists-killed-israel.html

[–] TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone 46 points 1 year ago

Hamas has long history of murdering anyone who doesn't agree with them. Palestinian or Izraeli

[–] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.de 73 points 1 year ago

Based and rational stance

[–] Vlaxtocia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 67 points 1 year ago

ITT: tankies

[–] Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world 64 points 1 year ago

The weirdest shit was this one guy who tried to justify and relativize the torture and public Humiliation of that German Women that the Hamas presented as an IDF-Soldier. I have no Words for this.

[–] riodoro1@lemmy.world 61 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This post will surely result in civilized discussion.

[–] Zekas@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

I'm not sure what I was expecting

[+] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (3 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] Vlaxtocia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 87 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We're allowed to think they're both cunts you know?

[+] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (4 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] FREEZX@kbin.social 43 points 1 year ago (3 children)

One side is reacting on decades of oppression, the other is reacting on that reaction. They are the same.

[+] dontcarebear@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] Enigma@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Wtf, do you have a source for this? Cause like I’m seeing all kinds of claims being thrown around on threads with no one providing sources.

ETA: Nonbiased sources. Not just the first article you find. If you don’t know if your source is nonbiased or not, you can always double check on mediabiasfactcheck.

[–] doingthestuff@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

But who honestly trusts mediabiasfactcheck?

[–] Enigma@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have been using them for years and have thus far not been steered wrong with nonbiased news sources. They explain in detail their reasoning for labeling a news source as well as explain the algorithm they use. And so far the only people I’ve come across who dont like them are people who prefer to be told how to feel instead of looking for facts.

[–] doingthestuff@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I just looked up a handful of news sources on there and was overall satisfied with their assessments. My assumption though is that even the "bias checkers" have to have their own internal bias.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So fighting back against violent oppression is just as bad as fighting back against the person who's fighting you because you violently oppressed them for decades?

That's a level of mental gymnastics I can't fathom.

If I'm being harassed violently for years and I eventually shoot the person harassing me, their family trying to get revenge is not the same as me defending myself.

[–] JochCool@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Shoot the person harassing you, sure. That's something completely different from killing civillians arbitrarily.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

In their eyes every Israeli is complicit in their suffering.

I used a that example because I figured it'd be easier to understand.

They've been under direct siege from Israel for decades. When you've been oppressed that long anyone who belongs to the side of the oppressor becomes the enemy.

Think of it like Nazi Germany. How many innocent German civilians were killed because we couldn't discriminate between Nazi and not Nazi?

Israel has been trying to provoke Palestine into violent actions just like this as an excuse to further push their genocide of Palestine.

[–] JochCool@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

At least then limit your attacks on the Israeli military or police. Mass killing civilians does not do anything about the genocide of Palestine. There's a good chance it'll only make it worse.

The idea that people just being in a country are automatically complicit with the government's actions is the real mental gymnastics here. And yeah I understand that hatred can make people blind, but that does not make it justifiable.

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah and this person isn't alone in doing this. I saw same thing in Islam related subreddits. And I assume same thing is happening on other social media.

This behaviour not only alienates Palestinians but Muslims as whole from the rest of the world.

[–] TheBat@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

When you've been oppressed that long anyone who belongs to the side of the oppressor becomes the enemy.

Oh please don't try to misdirect. What sufferings were inflicted upon them by Nepalese and Filipinos?

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/10/what-we-know-the-number-of-foreigners-killed-missing-abducted-in-israel

Israel has been trying to provoke Palestine into violent actions

Oh no. Poor gullible Hamas didn't know they were killing tourists. Why would Israel make them do it?????????

Fuck them. There's no justification to what Hamas is doing. They're terrorists.

[–] 1847953620@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We're ignoring decades of heinous unnecessary war crimes against civilians on both sides, periodic provocation on both sides, etc.

I'm not entirely sure what the best course of action is at this point, but trying to define one as purely the good guy and the other as purely the bad guy is a recipe for ineffective/immoral decisions.

[–] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I'm not saying they're not both bad but I find it hard to condemn the actions of the abused when they finally have a chance to attack their abuser.

It's like when a women kills the man that's beaten her for years. Why should she be punished for defending herself? The abuse won't stop unless you either successfully defend yourself or you die.

Yeah they shouldn't be killing civilians. That's never okay. But how many of those civilians supported Israel's formal actions against Palestine? How many Israelis supported the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people?

It'd be like if the native Americans started a coup in the US. Most people don't actively think about native Americans but when they do they don't care about the fact they were basically genocided for the land we now call home. At what point can apathy be considered hostile?

If you watch a man get murdered and not only not do anything about it but actively try to hide it you're complicit.

Edit: I don't condone the acts. But I understand them.

[–] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

When a woman kills the man that's beaten her for years

More like a woman builds a pipe bomb and blows up the school the man that's beaten her for years sends his kids to.

Your fundamental mistake here is assuming that all Israelis are complicit. In the same way that just because a person is Palestinian, that doesn't make them Hamas, just because someone is Israeli doesn't make them Otzma Yehudit.

If you want to go down that road of insanely broad generalizations, you could just as easily say that Israel is correct to bomb civilians because "how many of those civilians support Hamas?". I hope you see how insane that statement is, and how it's the mirror image of what you said.

[–] Tnaeriv@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago

Hamas is not Palestine. They do not represent the Palestinian people. They're not the victims. They are a far-right, anti-semitic, corrupt religious dictatorship that's known for human rights abuses against their own people. Their leaders have been brigading for complete destruction of Israel and removal of all Jewish people from the region, either by deportation or straight up genocide. Most Muslim nations don't support the Hamas, the Palestine Liberation Organization does not support them, most Palestinians don't support them. Stop saying they are victims.

[–] PopOfAfrica@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Idk how annexation is not also violence

[–] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 year ago

revolutionary violence can not stem from reactionary fundamentalist organizations

[–] duxbellorum@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

…who is reacting and who is just violent here?

[–] ZILtoid1991@kbin.social 37 points 1 year ago

Two things can be true at the same time

Hamas is a far-right terrorist organization.
Israel commits war crimes in retaliation.

[–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Are they sharing vids of it on social media and smiling about it?

In the absence of perfect I'll side with lesser evil

[–] sederx@programming.dev 9 points 1 year ago

Are they sharing vids of it on social media and smiling about it?

completely irrelevant , you prefer more dead kids but no videos about them? because id prefer less children would die.

[–] Duke_Nukem_1990@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago

How the fuck do you decide who is the lesser evil there?

[–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Neither side is clean. There is a rich history of fucking about. From Palestine Israel Hamas... Everyone over there

[–] davepleasebehave@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

wise centrism