Technology

It was an obvious op from the beginning. You could tell by the people they were trotting out to sell it. Lots of liberal pro-authority types.

They are not the good guys, the fediverse is.

I think you're overselling the Fediverse here. The Fediverse also absolutely has censorship, it's just by individual instance admins instead of a for-profit company. If large, influential instances shut down or defederate, a lot of content goes with it.

Yeah, federated instances technically cache that data, but those communities are effectively dead, links are broken, etc. Users can jump to other services, sure, but the service isn't the same.

We've seen this here on Lemmy. Beehaw was a cool instance, but they defederated fairly early on. Lemmy.ml was super impactful, but their admins are super aggressive with moderation to the point that many avoid their communities. And so on.

Whether "the Fediverse" is good depends on your instance and the mods and admins of the various communities you are part of. That kind of sucks.

Maybe it sucks less than whatever major social media network you're comparing to, but I hesitate to call it "good," just different.

A decentralized service like Mastodon will have the same issues when governments are knocking on the door. The turkish government totally can force all those small turkish instance admins to defederate instances who are not reacting to legal threats. And all those small admins don't have the resources to fight a lengthy legal battle against their own government

Re: "(...) fuck however they want it spelt."

As a Turkish person, I'm with you on this.

If the Turkish government wants you to refer to Turkey as Türkiye, then they shouldn't be allowed to call the US "Amerika Birleşik Devletleri": they should be required to pronounce it United States of America.

Let's see how they like it then, lol. "Yunayıted Sıtets af Amerika", hah.

They're still a corporate entity, and they still want access to markets to make money.

Assuming you are serious:

Bluesky is ... arguably 'federated', but it is centralized, not decentralized.

https://gigazine.net/gsc_news/en/20241128-bluesky-decentralization

Their model (AT Protocol) relies on a central, authoritative ... 'Relay', that all 'federated' users and posts on federated PDS (personal data servers) must go through, to actually reach the 'AppView', ie, what all other people/users can actually see.

So, this is not a many to many, tangled spider web of connections, the way lemmy, and other parts of the actual fediverse are.

It is a top down hierarchy, a pyramid.

And Bluesky runs the Relay, the chokepoint.

If Bluesky cuts off the PDS your account is on, everyone on it is now gone.

The actual fediverse, Mastadon, Lemmy, etc, runs on ActivityPub.

In that model... every instance is essentially self contained, and every instance that is federated communicates with every other instance that is federated.

Each instance can decide what other instances they want to federate with... and users on each instance can personally block even more other users, communities, or entire instances if they choose to, but that only effects what that particular user sees.

That is what you call decentralized, approaching, or also having elements of being 'distributed'.

To bring up an example without getting into the drama that led to it:

The 'Tankie Triad' of ml, lemmygrad and hexbear have had a number of other instances defederate from them.

But, there are also a good number of instances that have not done so.

So that means if your account is on hexbear... you can't see or post on an instamce that has blocked your instance.

But, if you (a hexbear...ian?), post on a neutral instance... users on that neutral instance will see the post.

But but, if a user from an instance that has defederated from hexbear goes to to the neutral instance... they will not see the hexbearian's post.

This sounds complicated, and it is, but ... thats the whole point of a decentralized system. It is more complex in the abstract... but the entire system ends up being more robust, more adaptable, more customizable... without a central authority in direct control of the entire system.

For those who don't know, Bluesky isn't really federated. The only way to host a non-Bluesky instance required 1TB of storage in July 2024, and 5 TB of storage in Nov 2024. Could be way more than that now.

You basically have to be a company to federate into the ATProto (Bluesky) ecosystem. You can't just "stand up an instance".

Lots of detail: https://dustycloud.org/blog/how-decentralized-is-bluesky/

(I know you've already realized that you were conflating Mastodon with Bluesky, I'm putting this here for others who come along so they can get the facts).

You're right that Bluesky isn't federated, but it most definitely is centralized.

But I don't want to sit alone in a room.

Corpos aren't afraid of the Democrats. They own them.