this post was submitted on 28 Apr 2025
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[–] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 4 points 41 minutes ago

We have such a stupid fucking system for running society. We go out of our fucking way to block better options simply because they don't maximize profit. Not even "are actually unprofitable," just that they don't maximize profit.

[–] minorkeys@lemmy.world 7 points 4 hours ago

A system of disturbing goods and services that can't handle negative value is not a system that should be maintained. Our collect pursuit as a species should be the abundance of these things, not the artificially managed scarcity of them.

[–] HawlSera@lemm.ee 22 points 9 hours ago

Problems for Capitalism are Solutions for Humanity

[–] MellowYellow13@lemmy.world 9 points 8 hours ago

Capitalism has always been the problem, nothing new here.

[–] drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 8 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I would post that passage from Grapes of Wrath about oranges. But copy-paste doesn't work on my phone

[–] Hobo@lemmy.world 25 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I got you.

The works of the roots of the vines, of the trees, must be destroyed to keep up the price, and this is the saddest, bitterest thing of all. Carloads of oranges dumped on the ground. The people came for miles to take the fruit, but this could not be. How would they buy oranges at twenty cents a dozen if they could drive out and pick them up? And men with hoses squirt kerosene on the oranges, and they are angry at the crime, angry at the people who have come to take the fruit. A million people hungry, needing the fruit- and kerosene sprayed over the golden mountains. And the smell of rot fills the country. Burn coffee for fuel in the ships. Burn corn to keep warm, it makes a hot fire. Dump potatoes in the rivers and place guards along the banks to keep the hungry people from fishing them out. Slaughter the pigs and bury them, and let the putrescence drip down into the earth.

There is a crime here that goes beyond denunciation. There is a sorrow here that weeping cannot symbolize. There is a failure here that topples all our success. The fertile earth, the straight tree rows, the sturdy trunks, and the ripe fruit. And children dying of pellagra must die because a profit cannot be taken from an orange. And coroners must fill in the certificate- died of malnutrition- because the food must rot, must be forced to rot. The people come with nets to fish for potatoes in the river, and the guards hold them back; they come in rattling cars to get the dumped oranges, but the kerosene is sprayed. And they stand still and watch the potatoes float by, listen to the screaming pigs being killed in a ditch and covered with quick-lime, watch the mountains of oranges slop down to a putrefying ooze; and in the eyes of the people there is the failure; and in the eyes of the hungry there is a growing wrath. In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage.

[–] drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 9 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Thanks. I love this quote. But it pisses me off so bad

[–] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 1 points 38 minutes ago

Slaughter the pigs and bury them, and let the putrescence drip down into the earth.

This reminds me of 2020 when they shut down slaughterhouses due to COVID. They killed hundreds of thousands (likely into the millions) of pigs using ventilation shutdown. These were not diseased pigs, it was simply to dispose of them while the slaughterhouses were shut down.

We live in a fundamentally sick society.

[–] CalipherJones@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

The question comes down to this. How do you incentivize work other than with money?

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 1 points 32 minutes ago

Capitalism isn't "when people get paid for working." And people getting paid for doing a job isn't the problem highlighted in this post. In any case, there are any number of ways people might be motivated to do something useful.

[–] EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 1 points 23 minutes ago

Historically, people have worked due to real scarcity in order to meet their basic survival needs. We don't face such scarcity in the modern, developed world.

I've often conceptualized UBI or other such schemes (e.g. negative income tax) to provide a basic, spartan standard of living. If you want luxury, you need to work for it. Of course what constitutes "luxury" might fluctuate over time. And in times of greater abundance, UBI might be more generous while being scaled back in times of scarcity. If too many people opt out of working and only collect UBI, then real scarcity may indeed become and issue requiring such programs to be reduced.

But the point here is that we produce FAR more than what people actually need. This "must work and produce for the sake of it" leads to a lot of make-work in the form of things like artificial scarcity, planned obsolescence, or people producing and selling solutions in search of problems. The amount of actual fucking trash produced is mind-boggling. Something like fast fashion that produces low quality apparel only intended to be worn a few times has an enormous impact on our environment.

Imagine a world where we worked towards quality and making sure that actual needs were being met rather than being fixated on highest profitability at the exclusion of everything else. A more collaborative society instead of a hyper-competitive "winner take all" freak show.

[–] HalfSalesman@lemm.ee 58 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Capitalism makes abundance problematic.

[–] Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works 12 points 13 hours ago

Supply side Jesus says put your faith in the wisdom of the CEO.

[–] yagurlreese@lemmy.world 41 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

oh no the power is too cheap. God forbid our trillions of tax dollars go to something actually useful and good for the people oh well looks like we will get the F-47 instead and pay it to private military contracts 😂

[–] suite403@lemmy.world 4 points 12 hours ago

We need more military! Cut social security!

[–] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 18 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (2 children)

Wasn't there a town in China that produced such a glut of surplus electricity that they didn't know what to do with it? And it was 100% solar?

[–] Nikelui@lemmy.world 14 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

I guess the biggest bottleneck for renewables is energy storage.

[–] Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 1 points 57 minutes ago

That's the common thought, but it rests on the assumption that demand cannot be manipulated.

Legacy generation incentivized overnight consumption, when the grid had excess production capacity it needed to unload. With solar, we need to reverse those incentives. If it is harder to produce power overnight, we can drive large industry (like steel mills and aluminum smelters) to switch from overnight operations to daytime consumption.

Overnight storage is something we do need, but it is not efficient, and the need for it should be avoided wherever possible.

Parking garages are usually full during the day, when solar is at its highest generation. In the near future, as EV adoption rises, parking garages need charging stations at every space, sucking up every "excess" watt on the grid.

[–] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 6 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Pretty much. Once we got that covered there is no excuse anymore.

[–] Robbity@lemm.ee 5 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

It's basically solved. Sodium batteries are cheaper and much more durable than lithium batteries, and are currently being commercialized. Their only downside is that they are heavier, but that does not matter for grid-scale storage.

[–] toastmeister@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

Being cheaper than Lithium is great, but are they cheaper than nuclear?

The manpower of maintaining all these batteries seems like it would also be a lot, how would you do it for an entire grid, or would you need to have each individual placing a battery on their property to deal with brownouts?

[–] MIXEDUNIVERS@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 59 minutes ago

Problem with coal or nuklear is it isn't cheap. In Germany it survies only on subsidies. And Nuclear was abolished in Germany, a bit to early. I said we needed it 10 years longer and we could have shutdown our coal.

[–] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 2 points 8 hours ago

I remember reading about those. Sodium batteries are revolutionary. They don't need a rare earth mineral... sodium is friggen everywhere.

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 5 points 12 hours ago

Story of 2010s Germany as well.

[–] Atlas_@lemmy.world 55 points 20 hours ago (9 children)

The answer is batteries. And dismantling capitalism, but batteries first

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