this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2025
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For "normie" protestors who doesn't have the budget to get new gadgets, is Airplane Mode enough? (So to just use their phone as a Camera/Camcorder and Offline Maps for navigation) (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 2 days ago by throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.works to c/privacy@lemmy.ml
49 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

cross-posted from: https://sh.itjust.works/post/40154928

I doubt its even environmentally/economically sustainable for a whole crowd of millions to just buy burners to discard after every protest. Too much ewaste. Is there a strategy that everyone can use without generating too much ewaste?

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[–] Etterra@discuss.online 2 points 14 hours ago

Probably not. Growing up, a kid I went to school with had the philosophy of "always assume that your parents can and do spy on you all the time in ways you can't detect." Overblown maybe, but he never got in trouble for about, so there's that. If you're afraid of the government - which you should be, especially when protesting - it's better to be safe than sorry. Leave it home. Get a burner phone if you need one.

Damn I haven't thought of that kid in like 20 years. I wonder if he ended up a normal adult or not.

[–] DrunkAnRoot@sh.itjust.works 4 points 22 hours ago

on modern smart phones or any device i would not trust any software based toggles it needs to be physical you can easily wrap your phone in about 6 layers of tin foil and know that its not pining cell towers or better yet leave your phone home so it looks like you never left your house

[–] nimpnin@sopuli.xyz 22 points 1 day ago

For normie protestors, leaving your phone home works perfectly well

[–] Anomalocaris@lemm.ee 30 points 1 day ago

ask yourself why do you need it?

just leave it at home, bring some cash. need the map? try to learn the route beforehand, need communication? agree to meet whoever you met at a specific time and place. you shouldn't be online or on the phone, protest, talk to strangers, chant...

[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 24 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Gaps in data is data too. Phones stay home.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

You are right, but also data isn't necessarily evidence.

[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 2 points 14 hours ago

But still useful to build a profile, limits alibis etc.

[–] TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip 3 points 22 hours ago

Who needs evidence, when you can just skip the whole justice system and jump straight to sending people to the torture camps.

[–] solrize@lemmy.ml 40 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

It will help stop the phone from broadcasting your location, but the danger is the private stuff on your phone getting copied if your phone is seized. Better to use a burner phone with nothing private (such as contacts) on it. Used that way you don't need multiple burners. Just keep it powered off til you reach the protest. I'd be hesitant to keep it powered (such as for mapping) on the way there, unless you don't mind GPS track potentially being retained on the phone. OTOH they will probably track you anyway, through license plate and face recognition.

BTW the cheapest place I know of to get phones with minutes is below, especially the basic flip phones that are probably better for this anyway.

https://www.qvc.com/electronics/phones/tracfone/_/N-mlt0Z1z1393y/c.html

[–] subterfuge@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Don’t they still broadcast low-energy Bluetooth?

[–] solrize@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I thought airplane mode or power-off disables that, but maybe on some newer phones, that is left running because of "find me". Hmm. BLE shouldn't be able to reach any cell towers though.

[–] subterfuge@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I think BLE is picked up by other nearby devices. That’s how you can find AirTags even though they have no cellular antennas.

[–] djsaskdja@reddthat.com 2 points 1 day ago

This still happens with iPhones even when they’re powered down I believe.

[–] 3abas@lemm.ee 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The air tags have batteries..

[–] subterfuge@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Don’t phones have those too? 😃

[–] Buske@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago

Do not bring any device, even your car tracks you if it has GPS, If your face is seen on any camera, your known.

[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

People should share Signal usernames or matrix channels or something at these protests to organize.

[–] throwawayacc0430@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Is Signal on iOS or a Googled version of Android that much better? Couldn't Apple and Google technically snoop on those texts anyways?

[–] PumpUpTheJam@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Just leave your phone at home

[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 2 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

I think there are some attempts by google and apple by doing client side scanning and uploading it to their servers but I don't think that's done yet. For apple, if you have those icloud backups on your apps then I know for sure they can see imessage stuff.

But what I'm saying is, maybe leave your devices at home and share your signal or matrix username information so when you guys come home, you can hop on to those encrypted platforms and organize and share content.

I think Briar works on bluetooth messaging but only on Androids so it's cool but not too useful for a general purpose messenger.

[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Google backs up a history of your notifications, so if you have signal setup to show notifications, that's on Google's servers.

[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 1 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

This article says all notifications are e2ee

https://tecnobits.com/en/how-to-receive-push-notifications-in-signal/

This privacyguides forum says google knows some metadata but not the contents

https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/what-are-the-privacy-implications-of-using-google-notifications/25895/3

[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago

Beware, there's a difference between "push notifications" (which is what your links are talking about) and "notifications", specifically with the "notification history" feature.

Push notifications are a mechanism to transport messages over google services. What that does is that the backend service of some app (e.g. the Signal server) can send a message to an app that's currently not actively running to tell it that there's something new happening, e.g. a new incoming message. This goes via Google services because that way, the app doesn't need to be constantly running. Google services then wakes up the app and allow it to do something with that info, e.g. display a notification.

The alternative is that the app is constantly running, constantly actively checking for new messages and thus constantly consuming power.

This can be e2e encrypted by the app, and then Google can only see metadata.

Notifications, on the other hand are the things that show up on your phone when you swipe down from the top navigation bar. These notifications can be read in plain text by any app on your phone, including the OS. If you have Notification History enabled, they can be backed up (again in plain text) to Google's servers. And any old app you have on your phone can silently do the same. That's why Signal allows you to hide the text content and/or sender name for notifications.

[–] FreeWilliam@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I personally don't own a phone. My solution to messaging, recording, and navigation is my Thinkpad X200T running parabola GNU+Linux-libre as the os and GNU boot as the bios. It's as anti-surveillance pro-piracy pro-freedom you can get. For protests, just turning off bluetooth and wifi on it pretty much gets you off the radar. The only problem is that it's camera really sucks. Photos are doable, but videos might not. Also, for protests, physical privacy is important too, so I hope you are wearing bandana to protect you from being identified in addition to protection (helmet, knee pads, and maybe a gas mask depending on how big the protest is)

[–] communism@lemmy.ml 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Don't bring your phone? Either that or a faraday

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Apple's "find my" network can find your phone when it's turned off, because the phone continues to transmit low-energy Bluetooth which other devices in that network receive and report. So if you're in a crowd with a switched-off iPhone and other people have their devices on, it's still possible for your location to be tracked. There may be other modern phones that do this too, continuing to transmit low power signals to nearby devices. If you really don't want to be tracked, you can't be sure Airplane Mode or turning the phone off will be sufficient.

[–] TauZero@mander.xyz 11 points 1 day ago

Airplane mode on Apple has two sub-toggles: wifi and bluetooth (the main toggle controls the cellular antenna). With all three toggled off, find-my does not work. The device just shows up as "offline, location unknown, last seen at..." on the map. Something to watch out for though: for some reason Apple will turn bluetooth back on after a couple days without asking, even with airplane still on. Also, an app running in background could in theory record the GPS coordinates and transmit them to home server once connection is reestablished.

[–] otp@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 days ago
  1. You can probably re-use a burner phone again and again
  2. What do you need a phone for? Could it be replaced with other items? (Cameras, walkie-talkies, printed maps?)
[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Look, if you're going to one of these protests, what are you really worried about? These are mostly very popular, very well attended liberal demonstrations. Is it a big deal that there is digital evidence that you were in the area at that time?

If you think (or plan that) you may be involved in more than waving a sign, then just leave your phone at home. Make a plan ahead of time, and have one or more friends in on it that do the same. Look out for one another, and wear clothing that visually obscures your identity. Wear masks, cover any tattoos, don't wear distinctive clothing.

[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That sounds an awful lot like you still believe you we have protected constitutional rights.

Every piece of digital information has been tracked and stood away by the government since the '90s.

There's a very thin line right now between showing up at a peaceful protest, getting corralled in and detained until curfew then getting locked up, researched and logged.

The administration knows that sufficient protests will knock them out of power. They will escalate making protests dangerous enough to try dissuade protesting.

All efforts and privacy are reasonable under the circumstances.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 day ago

Privacy and security are a continuum, and they are balanced by your appetite for risk, and necessity of action. The safest approach to these protests is, of course, not attending them at all. I don't want to overwhelm anyone with security advice that may not be reasonable or relevant for their situation.

[–] pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip 11 points 1 day ago

These are mostly very popular, very well attended liberal demonstrations. Is it a big deal that there is digital evidence that you were in the area at that time?

This is a "remind me in five years" question.

Probably we turn this thing around and nobody gets disappeared for their phone records showing attendance of a peaceful protest.

But that "probably" is doing a shit ton of lifting in the previous sentence.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

what are you really worried about?

If you're asking this question then you're not paying attention to what's happening with the current US admin. We're entering a vengeful dictatorship. Hence the name of the protest.

[–] hexagonwin@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

just don't bring your daily driver phone, leave it home. carry some secondary phone you can use for camera or navigation (offline maps) or fm radio

[–] thepenismightier@lemm.ee 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yeah a disposable phone is bonkers. An old phone minus SIM set up for photos/video, offline maps, and mesh network messages with encrypted storage and no biometrics is plenty.

[–] leoboehm@lemmy.world 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Why is this a problem? What country are you from? Protests are generally pretty legal

[–] BigDiction@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

In the US cops have been known to deploy ‘Stingray’ devices that spoof a cell tower and create a record of every phone in the area. In the context of a protests, these records could be used to determine who attend multiple events, who the likely organizers are, etc to create lists of undesirable people who may receive special attention from law enforcement.

More specifically, if shit goes down at a protest there is digital record of your attendance. It’s very easy to go from a peaceful protester to a criminal in the eyes of the government.

[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 6 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

Use a normal cam, go pro or something like this, at home you can upload it to the web somewhat later, or also pass it to an journalist which for sure is also there (not precisely to one of the FOX). Best to one of another country which also cover the march.

Don't use a smartphone, they are spyware by definition, more nowadays in the US. It's never good to have sensitive data in your phone, Google, Apple and also your ISP share data with the gov in days like these.

[–] leoboehm@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Oh, that sucks. Then the only safe thing is wrapping the phone in tinfoil, but it's completely useless to bring then.

[–] leadore@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

I have a small camera (a little smaller than a phone) that can do photos and videos.

The phone will be powered off before leaving the house and only turned on if absolutely needed to make a call. Hopefully that's enough for no GPS/cell tower tracking, right? Don't need to wrap it in foil?

[–] balsoft@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

As others said, you can reuse burner phones, and they can be really really cheap. You can get a 10-year-old midrange phone from an e-waste place for free or close to that, replace the battery (which tends to be much easier on old phones), and it will do everything you need just fine. I think it's the sweet-spot between convenience (e.g. navigation is really useful if the crowd carries you to part of the city you don't know, taking photos/videos, etc) and safety (even if you get caught, and are forced to unlock the phone, there's virtually nothing on it that cops can rummage through). Just make sure to pre-download maps and other resources you may need (for maps on a cheap old device I would recommend this: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/app.comaps.fdroid), but don't log in to any accounts. Unless you really need to communicate with others over the phone, keep the airplane mode on. If you're savvy enough, while replacing the battery you can also physically disconnect the antennae from the modem too for extra peace of mind.

Oh, also, I don't know about your country but in some places you can still get "anonymous" pre-paid SIMs from sellers in shady underpasses for cash. If you really must communicate with others via cellular/need mobile internet, that's also an option to put in your burner phone. But once again, avoid logging in to any accounts or calling anyone you know unless absolutely necessary.

[–] JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

And for the love of god, don't sign in to your google/apple account, other shit is probably less problematic if you sign out later.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

  1. That burner phone can still be traced back to you.

  2. That burner phone is likely going to require you to sign into a Google account with a phone number before it will do absolutely anything. All "feature phones" are running some form of Android, and Android requires this in their ToS.

[–] balsoft@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That burner phone can still be traced back to you.

Depending on what that means, sure. Most likely scenario is that you get apprehended, can't discard the phone for whatever reason, and the cops search it. In that case yeah sure it can be traced back to you.

If you are careful and only use it for (careful) photography and maps (as OP requested), then I feel like it can't really be traced back to you if you discard it or give it to someone else etc, except maybe fingerprints and DNA (but cops likely won't have the resources to do that for everyone in the entire protest). And for situations like this it a digital camera or a paper map could be traced all the same.

All “feature phones” are running some form of Android

I'm not talking about "feature phones". Just a regular old midrange smartphone. E.g. the original Samsung Galaxy A-series.

That burner phone is likely going to require you to sign into a Google account with a phone number before it will do absolutely anything

Some of them will, sure. Check before buying (or just make a new Google account without linking it to a phone number - might require a VPN to somewhere else but doable). I've had plenty of smartphones where you can just skip it. You won't have access to Google Play and such but that might be a bonus :)

Android requires this in their ToS

I'm too lazy to check but I highly doubt it - Google is not available in China at all and yet there are plenty of Android smartphones sold there. Also Android is mostly open-source and different vendors can and do build different versions of it.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Depending on what that means

It means they can find out where it was purchased and by whom.

Just a regular old midrange smartphone. E.g. the original Samsung Galaxy A-series.

Still runs Android.

Some of them will, sure

All of them. Again, this is required by Android ToS.

Google is not available in China

Are we talking about China? If you live in China your cell phone is the least of your concerns. They don't need it.

[–] balsoft@lemmy.ml 1 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

It means they can find out where it was purchased and by whom.

How? Do the e-waste centers keep track of the shit you take from there? Not where I live, they can sometimes give you stuff for free. Or you can just pick it up on ebay/craigslist/garage sale, that works too. Good luck tracking that.

All of them. Again, this is required by Android ToS.

I strongly doubt that because on my two last phones (OnePlus 5 & POCO M5) I didn't have to log in to a Google account with the default ROM, there was an obvious "Skip" button in the lower left corner when prompted to log in. Can you point me towards that ToS or a screenshot of an unskippable "Sign in to Google" screen on a consumer smartphone?

[–] Chivera@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Wrap it in aluminum foil. Faraday cage

[–] cy_narrator@discuss.tchncs.de -1 points 1 day ago

Just remove SIM card