Company loyalty is dead and the C-suites killed it.
Go fuck yourself, you don’t deserve worker loyalty
this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2023
117 points (97.6% liked)
Programming
17668 readers
142 users here now
Welcome to the main community in programming.dev! Feel free to post anything relating to programming here!
Cross posting is strongly encouraged in the instance. If you feel your post or another person's post makes sense in another community cross post into it.
Hope you enjoy the instance!
Rules
Rules
- Follow the programming.dev instance rules
- Keep content related to programming in some way
- If you're posting long videos try to add in some form of tldr for those who don't want to watch videos
Wormhole
Follow the wormhole through a path of communities !webdev@programming.dev
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you're meant to move jobs every few years, you can keep employees a few years longer with stock incentives or yearly raises but if there's no financial advantage to staying, why would I? Like if it's better in every single way to move, why stay?
I mean if you have a super nice working environment (team etc.), I don't see an issue with staying at the company.
But yeah as you say, if the new company is better in every single way, of course you should move.
For the first time in my career I'm actually not in this position. Found an employer that's an ex engineer and just "gets it". Good compensation, good benefits, and invests in all of our understanding and careers. Sucks seeing all the people just let go so I'm surprised this survey has this result.
Maybe it was conducted before this season of let gos.
Looks like the survey was done this month (Oct 2023).
The recent let goes have been strongly over-publicized in a desperate effort to keep software developer salaries down.
The actual change in the unemployment rate of software developers was a fraction of a percentage.
It's easily the biggest shift in the employment rate of developers we've seen in at least a decade. But it also did almost nothing to relieve the actual backlog of unmet demand for developers.
"But why do we hear so many stories of developers having trouble finding jobs?"
I'm glad you asked. (Steps up in soap box.)
Because for the first time in forever the shitty employers who can't keep their developers feel like they have negotiating power, and they love the feeling, and are making a big show of it. Those assholes are posting the majority of the current available jobs, because folks like me don't need to hire right now.
I don't need to hire right now, because I give my team a pay bump when the developer market rate guess up. It went up this year. I bumped their pay to match. They still work for me. Who could possibly have predicted that would work? Everyone could have, except somehow asshat-mc-always-hiring.
Most of the employers gloatingly turning down less-than-ideal candidates are going to completely miss this opportunity to hire at all, and will go back to paying 3x consulting rates to smaller firms that charge them $300.00 per hour worked. And rightly so. They suck and deserve to pay extra for sucking.
Source: I often get to charge these clowns an arm and a leg simply because I can, and they cannot, recruit and retain developer talent. I do try to mentor them on the topic, because I simply don't have the time to find and charge them all the glorious money they deserve to get charged. But I'm only one person, and I can only write so many huge invoices to huge assholes.
My mentoring attempts aside, I have job security because the majority of them don't actually want to get any less stupid about the whole thing.
(End soap box)
Curious how you're finding clients you can charge an arm and a leg. We sometimes get those, but mostly we get startups who are like "Our last consultants made a mess and we only have twelve thousand dollars left. Can you save us? We'll be putting a bunch of pressure on you because we're broke and desperate, and we're also super suspicious because we think the last guys ripped us off." I'm in a space where I'd prefer assholes who pay (and who I can fire if they're too dickish) over anxious founders on tight budgets.
I mean, the assholes who can pay atill lie and say all that routinely.
I don't think I've had a client who didn't ask for a sweetheart deal "for the greater good, and because we're all friends here.".
My secret is I'm actually a bigger asshole than they are, deep down, and I genuinely don't mind walking away if they can't pay. I'm aware of how much pain their business collapsing will do, but I've accepted it as something I cannot fix while looking out for my team acceptably.
I feel that if they really can't pay my team fairly and stay in business, then enabling them to stay in business is hurting everyone, both on my team and theirs.
They wouldn't even being considering paying consulting rates to begin with if they had the decency to read a book about how to treat staff like actual humans. Keeping an internal development team takes work, but it's not rocket science.
In the rare case that they genuinely can't pay for work they genuinely need, it's sad, but the market is trying to tell them to find a role that is actually needed and that they're actually able to get good at.
But I've found that more often than not, they're really just asshole liars who magically find some money, after wasting my time with their sob story.
Makes a lot of sense honestly because it's hard to see the demand for "competent" I.T. workers evaporating unless it was b.s. work.
I'm in the same position finally! I actually left for a few months a year ago to chase a stupidly good offer, but ended up hating the culture and company. They welcomed me back with open arms after earnest well wishes for my journey when I left.
The contrast to so many tech jobs I've had is amazing, it really does show how a focus on the employees impacts quality of life. Everyone here is invested in making our team successful and it shows in the quality of work. It's interesting how not having to worry about politics or wondering how to cover your ass lets you focus on the product.
Management: Doesn't matter, the competition is just as shitty to work for as we are. sips coffee
Until the competition isn't as shitty and doubles the salary ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Super misleading title, I'm in a job where I couldn't imagine finding something better, but I'm also open to new offers. I think almost everyone is
Yeah 79% is actually a rather low number given that this is the "default" state
You can always find a new shitshow
You can always find a new shitshow
Having to deal with different volumes and types of shit can be a very welcomed move. Perfect is the enemy of good.
IMO it just says which and why people hang out on SO.
What do you mean? Not being open to new opportunities is only harming yourself.
Being open to new opportunities and being dissatisfied with you job are different things. I've mainly meant that these statistics are biased. Hypothesis is that people not interested in doing their work hang out on SO instead, as a result a lot of people hanging out on SO are "considering a career move".
There are people who hang out on StackOverflow?
Change company is the only way to keep up with inflation.
I thought this was about leaving the field. as a senior majoring in CS I'm starting to feel like Tony Soprano.