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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Freeman@feddit.de to c/fuckcars@lemmy.world

Comparison left vs right for a craftsman who doesnt know which one he should buy:

  • l/r same bed size

  • r lower bed for way easier loading/unloading

  • r less likely to crash

  • r less fuel consumption and costs

  • r less expensive to repair

  • r easy to park

  • r easy to get around in narrow places like crowded construction sites or towns

  • r not participating in road arms race

  • l You get taken serious by your fellow carbrained americans because ""trucks"" are normalized and small handy cars are ridiculed.

So unless you are a fragile piece of human, choose the right one.

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[-] TheTaj@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

I agree with the sentiment of this post, but to be fair, you can also carry 3 or 4 passengers in the left vehicle, as opposed to only one in the right.

The main problem is the US fuel economy regulations actually encourage manufacturers to build bigger trucks and SUVs so they get classified into a category that has looser fuel economy requirements.

[-] YashaB@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

You are right. Still the american truck is hugely oversized, even for 5 persons and cargo. But, for the sake of the argument, imagine standing on the highway. Have a gander at the cars around you. How many people per car do you see? Exactly, 90% of the time there is exactly one person in a car. What makes the american truck an extreme waste of space an ressources, beside being a health hazard to everyone outside of the car.

Cars should get smaller, not bigger.

[-] fluxion@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

The extended cab version of the right truck would still tick all the boxes.

Off-road and towing capacity are probably the main feature you give up with that sort of design. Whether or not most people need that is a separate story.

[-] oatscoop@midwest.social 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They make kei trucks in 4x4, but you do lose ground clearance.

That being said, what kind of "off road" conditions are any of the trucks really contending with?

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Whats best is the kei 4x4 is probably significantly better in most off road situations due to its lighter weight and shorter wheel base. You can drive/manuever around things easier and when you are on mud or sand, the lighter weight prevents sinking.

[-] Blamemeta@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Muddy fields when parking at church or boy scouts or whatever.

[-] WetBeardHairs@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

You're mostly right. The main problem is that manufacturers chose to ignore the spirit of the US CAFE fuel economy regulations, and instead build everything bigger and bigger. That's why quarter-ton trucks grew to the size of the F150 in the year 2000 when they were quite a bit smaller before.

It's not the fault of the regulation. It is the fault of the manufacturers and to an equal extent, of consumers for preferring gigantic vehicles.

And let's not let GM off the hook for the 1990s Suburban, which began to, quite literally, dominate the roads. Those fuckers were the original huge grocery getter, and they had truly awful turning radius and blind spots. You just couldn't drive them safely or courteously if you tried. So of course everyone wanted more powerful and bigger vehicles to compete.

[-] DaleGribble88@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I'm actually going to fault regulations on this one. The EPA bases fuel economy requirements on the wheelbase of the vehicle. They used to publish a range of values based every other year or so, but then changed it to a formula. The formula is non-linear, making it neigh impossible to build anything with a small wheelbase anymore. In theory, they could design a small hybrid truck, but would need an obnoxiously long bed to compensate.

I watched a YouTube video on it not terribly long ago, and iirc, a 95 Ford Ranger, if held to the current formula-based regulations, would need 60+ mpg to be produced without major penalties to the company.

The EPA either needs to reevaluate the formula, or start manually publishing the numbers with values that are actually achievable by the industry at scale. Basically, by publishing the formula, manufacturers are able to min-max their designs in all the wrong ways.

EDIT: Updated for clarity and fixed some typos

[-] kool_newt@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

Yep, I think I saw that video, I was shocked how bad the regulations were. It really makes no financial sense for companies to make smaller trucks.

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[-] WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Thanks for pointing our the real incentives which are always some bullshit about more money and less regulations - basically the reason capitalism sucks at innovation - it doesn't care about whats important and in some cases actively hates it

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[-] PunnyName@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

Just gonna keep on posting this

[-] ImFresh3x@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago

This is why Pedestrian crash avoidance mitigation (PCAM) needs to be standard required by law, and will be on Californian shortly, and with California goes the world.

[-] Bazzatron@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I love that there's casually an Abrams in the middle there.

[-] Obi@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 year ago

This pic is fantastic but I wish there were more examples from actual alternatives to what people claim they need the pickups for e.g. vans like Trafics, Kangoos/Berlingos, Mercedes Sprinter/Vito etc etc. There is at least a sprinter there in version pickup, which has a very good result as I'm sure the other ones would as well, because these things tend to have the windshield all the way at the front of the vehicle so you have great visibility for the front 180°, the back 180° depends on the configuration you have which range from completely closed/opaque cargo space to fully furnished 5/7 seaters with windows.

[-] SerenityNow@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Good pic. Question : I'm new to Lemmy. How come it's almost impossible to resize a pic without the pic closing on me? Is there a trick to this?

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[-] mrbubblesort@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

To anyone claiming that the bigger one is the safer one ...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-06/what-drove-japan-s-remarkable-traffic-safety-turnaround

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24499113/

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-the-most-car-accidents

From the Bloomberg & NLM articles

From a safety perspective, kei cars have a lot going for them when compared with American-style SUVs and trucks. Their light weight generates less force in a collision, and their stubby front ends reduce driver blind spots. Research suggests that their occupants are equally safe as those inside full-sized vehicles.

[-] TraceLines@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

At first, I was going to criticize the collision speed of the example study, but found ( ok, I say found, I mean I googled for 15 seconds ) that the average American collision is occurring at less than 40mph, so good to go there.

Second, I was going to comment on the relative safety of being in the Kei truck and being struck by the 2500HD... but that just goes back to the 'participating in the arms race', so feels... stupid.

So, overall: Thanks for providing this. It directly answers the primary concern of 'what if I hit something tho'. There are some other angles I could nitpick on maybe, but they all feel like a kind of 'consolation prize' to the argument.

[-] Hyperreality@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

One thing you also need to remember, is that the smaller car has a far smaller braking distance and is more maneuverable, so is less likely to get in a crash. The lower centre of gravity also decreases the likelihood of a roll-over.

[-] Nemo@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 year ago

95% of the craftsmen I know have panel vans. Easier to both organize and secure tools and materials, more overall room.

[-] saltesc@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Ours are utes. Either road versions or 4×4 versions. American trucks sell here but they're seen as a joke in both capability and practicality, so it's assumed the owner is very insecure about something or not very intelligent. As a result, they're very rare.

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[-] WhataburgerSr@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

As an American, I've written to multiple manufacturers, foreign and domestic, to bring/build the smaller Kei trucks but I have never heard any response except for Ford that basically sent a brochure for their F150 that has 'more space' for 'getting work done'. I would love these for practicality but the cost of importing a used one was MUCH higher than buying a normal truck/suv here. :(

[-] SeatBeeSate@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Really wish I could get my hands on one of these. The import process is so complicated it makes it barely cheaper than a domestic used truck.

[-] CADmonkey@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I was going to buy one of the kei trucks when I had to replace my truck in 2022. I ended up with a base used F150 for 12k, because it was cheaper than any kei truck I could find.

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[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago

But the right one doesn't have enough room for a crate of piss-weak "beer", a gun rack, or a perch for your eagle.

[-] Legendsofanus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Fragile? But those American truck owners always try to look so tough and mean...

[-] Draconic_NEO@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

They try to act and look tough but they have some of the most fragile egos.

[-] Legendsofanus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

That's why they get offended so quickly hehe

[-] RufusFirefly@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Sizes aside, whenever I bought a Toyota or if I bought a Lexus, I would make sure that they were manufactured in Japan.

[-] PlantDadManGuy@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Here is the answer to your question. You can skip to the EPA graph at about 4:55, but may want to watch the whole vid if you actually care to learn about the problem. https://youtu.be/azI3nqrHEXM

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this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2023
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