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To the Israeli lawmaker I ask:
Gazans? Certainly you mean Hamas, right? RIGHT? The military group that attacked Israel on Oct 7th. Because if you mean really mean "Gazans must be destroyed" then that is the dictionary literal definition of genocide.
edit: for clarity to whom I'm addressing my questions
The Haaretz page seems to be unavailable right now. Here's the MSN version:
And an archived copy:
The Haaretz page seems to be unavailable right now. Here’s the MSN version:
Apologies if my post wasn't clear. I wasn't questioning you personally, but rather the cited lawmaker in the article. I'll edit my post to make that clear.
No, I just somehow managed to post my reply under your comment when I meant to post it at the top level. I didn't have any issue with your comment.
They created this extermination camp.
Now they confirm they did it deliberately.
No country should ever support them again.
And yet the US govt just said there is no war in Ba Sing... I mean... no genocide in Gaza.
This is an excellent reference. Very cogently used as well I might add. Avatar the Last Airbender was truly ahead of its time, and one of the greatest pieces of children's media ever made in my humble opinion.
I wouldn't call it ahead of it's time, this is just history repeating itself.
It is media that’s consumable by children, but I would absolutely not call it “children’s media”. It is a show that can be - and is - enjoyed in depth by humans of all ages.
Liked it as a kid and really enjoyed a proper watch through as an adult
Yeah, but how will America maintain peace and security without a military base in the Middle East (btw totally not colonialism)? (/s obviously)
Maybe they can use all the other bases they have in the Middle East?
Less bases? ALL of your base are belong to us.
what’s clear to everyone is bibi and the far right are doing genocide. his popularity is around 4% over there, and the court just said sorry bibi, you still gotta stand trial for theft and corruption. what we call “the far right” is what the ancients called “evil.” it’s all about greed, lies, hatred, killing, blood, cruelty, and so on. nothin good come of it because it’s literally evil. doesn’t matter what the nationality or history of where it’s born. bibi has no more care for jews than he does for palestinians, just like the far right over here doesn’t give a rats ass about the rednecks and fanatics it winds up for its own gain.
But when I post anything anti-genocide - I get banned from Facebook for being anti-Semitic?
Well it's because you're not an Israeli lawmaker.
Israel means to assert that to be Jewish is to be genocidal.
Sounds pretty antisemitic of them
Israel also killed Israeli hostages and funneled money to Hamas. The Israeli government and IDF have a history of antisemitism
Israeli lawmaker Moshe Saada from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party said on Tuesday that recent widespread calls to "destroy" the residents of the Gaza Strip affirm that the right-wing was right.
In an interview on pro-Netanyahu Channel 14, Saada said that even "in the kibbutzim they say, 'destroy them.' My friends at the prosecutor's office, who fought with me on political matters, in debates, tell me, 'Moshe, it is clear that all the Gazans need to be destroyed,' and these are statements I have never heard." This proves, he said, that the right-wing was correct just as it was on the Palestinian issue.
...
In November, Far-right Eliyahu said that that dropping a nuclear weapon on the Gaza Strip is "an option."
Eliyahu, a member of National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir's Otzma Yehudit party, maintained that "there are no non-combatants in Gaza." He was then asked, in light of his views, whether a nuclear attack on the Gaza Strip is an option. "That's one way," he responded.
Seems pretty clear and unambiguous what he means. This is calling for genocide.
In response, Ben-Gvir said that the Eliyahu was only speaking "metaphorically.
A ridiculous statement.
A metaphorical nuclear weapon, much better.
"It also confirms for many people in the world the allegation that Israel does intend to commit genocide," he added.
Yes. Yes it does.
Wow. Amazing. How the tables have turned.
Weird how that happens. I mean seriously. It makes no sense how terrible a peoples' memory can be.
I'm not a person of belief but by their own lore, they have fell in disgrace again, by their own actions.
Do you ever wish you could be there just to call all of these people out? I mean I don't possess the eloquence to do it right but still. Seeing people in suits calling for the destruction of others really makes me grip my palms.
If you lack eloquence you can always throw your shoe, the message is clear.
The lawmaker in question is Moshe Saada, number 28 out of 32 MKs from Likud (Israeli elections fix an order for each party, and legislative seats are awarded by that order).
He gave an interview on Channel 14, which is generally regarded as extremely right wing in Israel. Ahmad Tibi, number 1 on the Ta'al list, was the one who called him out for the statement:
Moshe Saada said this in response to the article:
The full interview is here on youtube (In Hebrew, no translation available).
He only said it once in a 13 minute interview and every other instance he's talking explicitly about Hamas (L'hashmid Ha'Hamas). I'm guessing it was him searching for a word to include both Hamas and PIJ, but that might be too generous. But anyone thinking this is an official policy of Israel and that's the way forward is delusional - almost every country on Earth has extremist members of their legislature.
Funny how when it comes to Israeli extremists we all discuss nuance and how complicated and messy politics and language is but when it comes to extremists in resistance organizations it's immediately assumed that what they say colours the entire resistance.
I support palestine but this kind of reporting definitely seems dishonest. There absolutely is an argument to be made about it being a slip up and a showing of true colors, but saying this is clear evidence for the intent of a genocide is dishonest and only hurting the movement to free palestine. Thanks for pointing out that it was the only time in the interview where he says gazans, not hamas.
anyone thinking this is an official policy of Israel
...need only look at their actions to confirm that
It honestly seems pretty clear only to apartheid regimes hell bent on ethnic cleansing.
I have a question but I want to make it clear that I am asking in good faith as I fumble my way through understanding the complexities of geopolitics, and I am not casting aspersions or pushing a conspiracy theory. I am especially not taking a position in defense of Israel, or against their accountability to the ICC.
Okay, that said: Is South Africa pushing this at the behest of Russia, like as a BRICS thing? The only other thing I can think of is that this helps improve the image of an embattled ANC at home.
I get why they have a unique perspective given their defeat of apartheid, and that's likely the steelman for why they are advancing this, but that just seems like too pat of an answer.
I would love additional perspectives on this.
As horrible as South African apartheid was, what is happening to the Palestinans is degrees worse.
Ordinary South Africans still remember the deep damage Apartheid perpetrators inflicted on us, it's poisonous remnants are still affecting us as a country to this day as we try to heal as a people.
Now imagine South Africans seeing what Israel is perpetrating against the Palestinians, now and in the past. It's a punch to the gut, a searing pain, to see what was done to us and our parents being done to Palestinians. We're seeing a gross refined version of Apartheid that was inflicted on us being inflicted on the Palestinians. And largely the so called west/ global north is cheering for the Israeli Apartheid regime commiting genocide. It makes me sick to my core.
For these reasons there is immense pressure on our government by civil society to denounce Israel and support Palestine. It does help that the ANC has always been pro Palestinian in the first place. Also it's elections this year so the ANC definitely wants some good pr too.
I would say that these points factor in way more than any link to Russia or China
I suspect whats going on here is that the South Africans know what kind of people Zionists are, since the old apartheid government used to partner with them.
It's probably a similar reason to why the european country that first asked for sanctions againat Israel was the Republic of Ireland, who like Palestine and until the early XX Century was occupied and oppressed by a larger neighbhour, in their case the United Kingdom: when you suffered it yourself or grew up hearing the stories from those who suffered it, it's a lot easier to understand the true depth and hurt of what's being done to a people in a similar situation as you, your paraents or even grandparents were once in.
It also explains why Germany still unwaveringly supports Israel: they naturally empathise with the strong military power that's trying to control a "lesser race" in a territory they occupy - it's painfully obvious that "never again" wasn't at all about the violent genocide of a weaker ethnic group by a stronger one driven by cold violent extreme racism (the kind who describes another etnic group as untermenschen/human animals) and greed, but was only ever about Germans vs Jews, hence Germany ending up again involved in a Holocaust on the side of the genociders.
An additional perspective is that the Apartheid government became an ally of convenience with Israel to the point that they created a joint nuclear weapons program together. Then you have the political pressure African union states have for maintaining robust trading agreements with Arab states. There's a ton of history there
Thank you for this!
I don't think it's a BRICS thing at all. It's what their own population want. South Africa has long been critical of apartheid in Israel.
Moreover back when South Africa was under Apartheid, for a long time Israel was one of its main trading partners even after the west had imposed sanctions, and it also contributed directly to the white military. They eventually joined the boycott but the damage was done.
I think South Africans just have a more defined (and more recent) sense of pride when it comes to standing up against Apartheid. They recognize the rhetoric and the legal justifications from Israel's right wing. I had the privilege of studying law under someone who helped to right the ship in South Africa, an American constitutional law scholar who worked with President Mandela to help write their new Constitution in the late 1990's. They are immensely proud of it as a document that secures human rights for people.
As an aside, just as Hamas must be thought of as separate from the Palestinians, the far right Israeli leadership needs to be thought of distinct from the Israeli people.
There are plenty of people in Israel who think their government has been going too far, and there are plenty more people who think their response after the attacks were justified but have since gone too far.
The danger is not really Israel or Zionism, it is nationalism, a perversion of patriotism that works to justify people's worst emotional reactions.
That's the language of the team on defense!
So they are fast tracking from a Madagaskarplan to a Wannseekonferenz level, just with the roles of the players replaced.
If anyone should keep their fingers out of such ideas, it is Israel.