Anti-Communists and Anti-Tankies aren't against colonialism nor imperialism, they are actually against socialism and communism : memes

[–] Justice@lemmygrad.ml 42 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Anti-communism has always been a reaction to communism (leftist movements broadly).

Anyone who unironically uses the word tankie... ever... is immediately written off in my book. They're terminally online and have never read anything, never thought about anything seriously, they're useful idiots for fascists at best and, a lot of times, just fascists.

I feel like they think I'm being hyperbolic or forcing a false dichotomy, but, no, if you self-label as anti-communist that's basically the same as modern day "all lives matter" people which was a right wing, reactionary, movement against the movement for justice for black people in the US. There is a movement which is objectively on the side of people, justice, etc. and there is a reaction to that movement. Just how it goes. If you identify on the reactionary side... well, there you go. Not sure why this is so complicated for the "bBUT TANKIES" dipshits.

[–] taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Meh, I've embraced the term tankie I don't think it's that bad. Only terminally online people really care about a meaningless term.

[–] Justice@lemmygrad.ml 27 points 10 months ago (2 children)

If they use it to mean "person who doesn't get bogged down in stupid details over the USSR (or China) just for the sake of hating a communist country" then fine. I don't care. It just gets old seeing it used as "person left of me, which means they're bad" by the most historically illiterate motherfuckers on the planet. The kind of fuckers who say they want socialism and then cry every time someone protests in a street. Do you see what I mean? It's not the word, I don't care in the end. I get like a death threat per day from random Nazis who (ironically) call me antisemitic for criticizing Israel. I'll take tankie over that, given the choice. But it's worth acknowledging the people calling me or us or whoever "tankie" are absolutely just the dumbest fuckers online. That's all.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 10 months ago (2 children)

But it’s worth acknowledging the people calling me or us or whoever “tankie” are absolutely just the dumbest fuckers online. That’s all.

Lmao you said that and one appeared soon after.

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This one seems a little less dumb than most. I think they're close to connecting the dots. They seem to realise that something is deeply wrong with their worldview and it is making them very angry so they're lashing out at what they perceive to be the cause ("Tankies" ruining socialism). I don't think I was too clear with them, certainly not patient enough, but I do hope they listen anyway.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Well indeed we can hope, though i wouldn't hope too much, i seen that pattern ending with doubledown enough times to debate pervert warning switching on

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 10 months ago

Yeah, I don't think they will come away from this with anything other than "redfash tankies hate the truth! I owned them so hard!" But I think this will be another straw on the camel's back, not the one that breaks it, but will add to the load of doubts their have about their worldview.

[–] Justice@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 10 months ago

If I put the cheese out too obviously the mouse will know what I am doing

But if I eat some cheese in the corner and, "oppsie" drop a small piece in a sticky trap area... I might just awaken to an angry mouse chirping at me.

[–] casskaydee@hexbear.net 5 points 10 months ago

[–] kot@hexbear.net 17 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

"Tankie" is used by liberals and left anti-communists to defame & differentiate themselves from principled communists, and really from anyone who defends AES states. That use is cringe and outs the person saying it as an absolute tool who shouldn't be taken seriously.

I have no problem calling myself a tankie though. Sending tanks to kill fascists is good. Every tankie should be awarded their own tank.

[–] casskaydee@hexbear.net 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Same. I think we need to expropriate the term from the lib/fash.

...socialist revolution is neither easy (as the Trotskyists and ultraleftists would have it) nor impossible (as the liberals and conservatives would have it), but hard. It will require dedication and sacrifice and it won’t be won in a day. Tankies are those people who think the millions of communists who fought and died for socialism in the twentieth century weren’t evil, dupes, or wasting their time, but people to whom we owe a great deal and who can still teach us a lot.

Or, to put it another way: socialism has powerful enemies. Those enemies don’t care how you feel about Marx or Makhno or Deleuze or communism in the abstract, they care about your feelings towards FARC, the Naxals, Cuba, North Korea, etc. They care about your position with respect to states and contenders-for-statehood, and how likely you are to try and emulate them. They are not worried about the molecular and the rhizomatic because they know that those things can be brought back into line by the application of force. It’s their monopoly on force that they are primarily concerned to protect. When you desert real socialism in favor of ideal socialism, the kind that never took up arms against anybody, you’re doing them a favor.

[+] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu -27 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

They're terminally online and have never read anything, never thought about anything seriously, they're useful idiots for fascists at best and, a lot of times, just fascists.

Most self aware tankie.

, if you self-label as anti-communist

Anti-tankie ≠ anti-communist

Tankies aren't communists, that's why I'm against them.

EDIT: I didn't realise this was a Lemmygrad community. No wonder y'all fascists are calling me a liberal despite me being a communist, I was confused for a second.

[–] Justice@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Bro, wtf is a tankie if not a communist? You're just out here making up bullshit. I want a definition!

I've been led to believe "tankie" was referring to fans of the USSR, which, I suppose if you wanna be annoying, one could argue "weren't communists." But you didn't do that. You didn't say "Stalin betrayed Marxist Leninism" or whatever. I could assume that's what you meant, but I'd rather read it from you.

It's starting to feel like, to me, that tankie just means "someone more left than me, and that makes me angry!" Because I can say who isn't calling people tankies. That would be Marxists of whatever variety. I can also say who does seem to be using that word all the time... socdems, liberals, sometimes outright fascists. It definitely seems to be the bludgeon of liberals who fancy themselves to be socialists though. I'm going to include most leftist anarchists under the umbrella of liberal because that's just how I roll. Like a big ol' tank.

[+] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu -20 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I'm going to include most leftist anarchists under the umbrella of liberal

Most politically literate tankie.

Tankies aren't communists. They simp for capitalist dictatorships.

to me, that tankie just means "someone more left than me, and that makes me angry!"

Funny, because that's how I feel about "liberal" whenever a tankie (i.e. a fascist) calls me one despite me being a communist.

[–] m532@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 10 months ago

You? A communist? Name all AES.

[–] ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 10 months ago

give (1) example of a country existing today that meets your defintiion of communism

[–] Justice@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 10 months ago

You still haven't given an example of wtf you're talking about.

Who the fuck are these mysterious (assumedly) pro-Stalin, pro-USSR, etc. "tankies" who ALSO are pro-USA/pro-capitalism?

Just give a name! Find a person in history or today and type their name into your text box and hit send. Is this asking a lot?

[–] taiphlosion@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Lmao this is exactly how libs argue, a bunch of quotes with snappy responses but nothing of substance to make a valid argument.

[+] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu -19 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Why would I waste time making complex responses to someone who thinks communists are liberals if they don't praise capitalist dictatorships? Tankies completely lack political culture, like all right wingers. It's a miracle they can read at all.

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 10 months ago (1 children)

We know you aren't "wasting time" because you don't have any arguments, just thought terminating cliches. I'm really hoping you're just an edgy 14 year old and not a grown adult, because this is just sad.

[+] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu -19 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Bruh, people here are calling communists and anarchists "liberals". How do I even argue with dumb shit like this? Fascists can't be reasoned with, whether they like the 3rd Reich or the DPRK.

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 10 months ago (1 children)

They're not calling communists and anarchists liberals, they're calling liberals liberals. Fascism doesn't mean "people I don't agree with" words actually mean things. You'd know this, if you weren't a liberal, even if you don't think you are one. Conservatives are liberals too, as liberalism is the dominant political idea in the west.

[+] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu -16 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Fascism doesn't mean "people I don't agree with" words actually mean things

Liberal doesn't mean "someone who believes in the abolition of private property", words actually mean things.

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You might "believe" in it, but what actions have you done to accomplish it? How do you intend to go about it? Peacefully, I'm assuming? Because to use violence is authoritarian redfash tankie, yes?

So I want you to ask your landlord nicely and peacefully, to give up their property, entirely without violence, see how that goes, just convince them it's wrong, that'll work, right? They just don't know that it's a bad thing! We "tankies" don't like violence, but we recognize it as an unfortunate necessity to help the struggling and the downtrodden.

Or is this not about that? Is this about evil authoritarians like Stalin and Mao? I'm assuming you're a yank, or at least live in the west. You've grown up in a capitalist education system. Where did you learn that these people are bad? Which group of people ensures that every student in the west learns that these people are bad? Don't you think the capitalists would have a vested interest in trying to convince people that any alternative to capitalism is even worse than it? Could it be that the things you've heard about "communist dictators" are just lies?

Don't know why I'm wasting my time to be honest. I hope you'll think on this, but I know you won't. Smug ignorance is far more comfortable than challenging your pre-concieved notions.

[+] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu -16 points 10 months ago (4 children)

How do you intend to go about it? Peacefully, I’m assuming? Because to use violence is authoritarian redfash tankie, yes?

Violence isn't bed per se; it's just a means to an end. It should be a last resort, but since capitalists have made it clear that they will not give up their system peacefully, it is necessary in order to remove them from power. Non-violence is a liberal lie spread to ensure no one challenges the status quo, hence why they gave themself the state monopoly on violence.

(note: I'm using "liberal" here to mean "liberal", not "actual leftist" like it's commonly seen in tankie circles)

I’m assuming you’re a yank, or at least live in the west.

I'm French.

You’ve grown up in a capitalist education system. Where did you learn that these people are bad? Which group of people ensures that every student in the west learns that these people are bad? Don’t you think the capitalists would have a vested interest in trying to convince people that any alternative to capitalism is even worse than it?

True. However, school specifically focused on the USSR and the eastern bloc in general, which was a genocidal dictatorship (this is an objective truth all historians agree with). Other alternatives to capitalism were not talked about much, if at all.

Could it be that the things you’ve heard about “communist dictators” are just lies?

Could it be that the things *you’*ve heard about “communist dictators” are just lies? You're not immune to Russian and Chinese propaganda.

Don’t know why I’m wasting my time to be honest. I hope you’ll think on this, but I know you won’t. Smug ignorance is far more comfortable than challenging your pre-concieved notions.

Same. You'll never convince me I'm a liberal (because I'm not), and I'll never convince you I'm an actual communist and you're not (because anyone who supports genocidal imperialistic dictatorships isn't a leftist).

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 10 months ago

Ok, let me try one last time. Every single "tankie" here was in the same position you are now. Every one of us believed everything we were told about the horrors of the USSR and China and Cuba, any and all socialist states. We aren't being "brainwashed" by another country on the other side of the planet, we have tried to understand these places better, of our own accord. And what we've found is that while these places are not perfect, they are grossly misrepresented in the west. The capitalists want you to hate socialism and socialist states, they don't care if you call yourself a socialist or not while you do so. Your anti-communism, sorry, anti-tankieism is indistinguishable from any western liberal who says "socialism works in theory but in practice it just leads to evil dictators." How are you actually different from them if you believe everything they do about socialism? How are you actually a socialist if actual socialists disagree with you and liberals agree with you instead?

Please, if you consider yourself a socialist, read theory, seek to learn, to understand, rather than just trying to dismiss people because their position frustrates you. The ruling class in the west wants us to fight amongst ourselves and what you're doing right now is exactly what they want from people. People who wear socialism like a T-shirt. People who don't learn about it, don't try to understand it, don't try to actually create a socialist state because it is seen as "authoritarian." I know it makes you mad when we call you a liberal. It should, and I'm sorry for that, but your are behaving exactly like one right now. I don't think you're a bad person, I just think you're being corralled into a capitalist friendly version of socialism, which is impotent and ineffectual. "Leftcoms" if you'd rather not be called a liberal, have been criticised for their inability to accomplish anything for over a century. Is that really how you want your "communism" to be? Just a bunch of empty impotent, impractical ideas and denunciations of those who did something, who improved things, flawed as they may be, because they weren't perfect? Do you really want to sit around your whole life with your thumb up your ass waiting for "perfect" socialism to arrive?

Please, read theory, Lenin especially. Your ideas are not new ones, they are very old hat, even cliche at this point, one of the oldest means of stifling communism was to corral it into "safe" versions which denounced all attempts at socialist experiments. I'd recommend this work in particular, but if you're a lib, it won't interest you, I know how much libs hate learning new things: https://www.marxist.com/classics-marxism-two-book/left-wing-communism-an-infantile-disorder.htm

[–] m532@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Lol school gave you capitalist propaganda. In a capitalist country.

Hmm

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 10 months ago

I was really hoping they'd actually try to think about that one, but nope. The capitalists aren't to be trusted, except when they talk about socialist countries, then they just care about making sure everybody knows the Truth about how evil bad they are.

[–] muad_dibber@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 10 months ago

Your country has had a 70+ year anti-communist campaign that's been very effective, as is shown in your case.

The USSR is the only reason France isn't speaking German rn: https://www.vox.com/2014/6/16/5814270/the-successful-70-year-campaign-to-convince-people-the-usa-and-not

[–] LoomingMountain@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 10 months ago

https://lemmygrad.ml/post/1155

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 10 months ago

Ew, a redditor.

[–] chesmotorcycle@lemmygrad.ml 34 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Parenti quote

[–] ParentiBot@lemmygrad.ml 36 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The quote

In the United States, for over a hundred years, the ruling interests tirelessly propagated anticommunism among the populace, until it became more like a religious orthodoxy than a political analysis. During the Cold War, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.

-- Michael Parenti, Blackshirts And Reds

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[–] badbadcomrade@hexbear.net 29 points 10 months ago (1 children)

When I learned this bot exists, gray and cloudy skies opened up and a bright beam of sunlight shined through my window alongside a beautiful rainbow. meow-hug

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 17 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Is writing bots hard? We need this bot and the sartre antisemitism quote bot over on Hexbear.

[–] badbadcomrade@hexbear.net 6 points 10 months ago

Never tried myself, but Hexbear does have that amazing whataboutism bot. Maybe it can be messaged and the owner can give feedback.

[–] Leon_Grotsky@hexbear.net 3 points 10 months ago

You could ask Kleeon how to set up a bot account, I think they are responsible for Amber bot and Whataboutism bot.

[–] ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml 28 points 10 months ago (3 children)

A liberal is someone who cant take there own side in an arguement.

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 10 months ago

And will twist themselves into knots insisting that it is really you who hold their position, not them.

[–] Cysioland@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 10 months ago

That's my sentiment. Tons of liberals acting like they're not really sure what they believe in and they subconsciously assume they're completely wrong.

[–] supersolid_snake@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

They do take "their" side. But you are correct: not ideologically, but materially they do.

[–] DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

See my fruitless argument with one below for an example of exactly that!

[–] supersolid_snake@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Yeah, I saw that. Genuinely frustrating. Essentially their argument was "I am a communist because I said it, and tankies aren't because reasons"

[–] Mzuark@lemmygrad.ml 21 points 10 months ago

Anti-Communists only ever rear their heads about the West when a leftist wants to improve society somewhat.

[–] TylerDurdenJunior@lemmy.ml -1 points 10 months ago (4 children)

How about this : https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/s/VP82xj2W4l

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 10 months ago

Answer to that question is "no". The material conditions of both countries are way too different to even compare.

[–] GrainEater@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 10 months ago

what about it?

[–] What_Religion_R_They@hexbear.net 9 points 10 months ago

reddit is so dumb it's impossible to follow these tracking urls without having an account. how did they manage to fuck up just straight up links

[–] TankieReplyBot@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 10 months ago

A Reddit link was detected in your comment. Here are links to the same location on Teddit and Libreddit, which are Reddit frontends that protect your privacy.

Memes