this post was submitted on 14 Jan 2024
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[–] Dehydrated@lemmy.world 85 points 10 months ago (3 children)

What part of Windows (or Microsoft software in general) is not a data collection service?

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 41 points 10 months ago (2 children)

If you aren’t using an insider edition then Notepad is still safe

[–] d3Xt3r@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago (3 children)

... for now. They've already replaced the old Notepad with a bloated UWP version, so it probably won't be long before it starts sending telemetry as well.

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[–] Schorsch@feddit.de 16 points 10 months ago (1 children)

When I look at my Pi Hole dashboard while my girlfriend's Mac is booted, I'm surprised by how many requests are blocked, given that apple somehow has the reputation of respecting their user's privacy.

And when she boots into Windows 10 MS's data stealing gets downright creepy.
I am lucky enough not to have a Windows 11 PC on my network but I think I would see even more denied requests.

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[–] PlantObserver@lemmy.world 74 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Hey Proton how about you quit privacy-washing and actually prioritize and release feature parity products for Linux so your customers aren't being herded onto windows' data harvesting platform just so they can use your supposedly privacy forward products

[–] helenslunch@feddit.nl 52 points 10 months ago (11 children)

The Linux Experiment recently interviewed the CEO who answered this question.

Basically it's the same as anything else. Linux requires more effort to code for due to its variety of distributions, and has a significantly smaller userbase.

In short, don't blame Proton, blame the (lack of) users.

[–] 1995ToyotaCorolla@lemmy.world 33 points 10 months ago (8 children)

I mean, can’t you just package your app in flatpack or even snap? Bam, your app works on 99% of distributions for little effort. That’s what Spotify does, and I’d argue they have even less incentive to support Linux than proton does

[–] JoMomma@lemm.ee 20 points 10 months ago

Spoken like someone who has never developed a app package

[–] helenslunch@feddit.nl 12 points 10 months ago

I don't know, I'm not a developer. Lots of companies don't make their products available on Linux, most cite similar reasoning, so it's unsurprising. But I agree it's disappointing. I really wish Linux was more user-friendly.

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[–] mlg@lemmy.world 22 points 10 months ago

Variety of distributions doesn't affect the effort in coding, it adds overhead for package management. Only rarely does it require the developer to add some extra code for either an edge case or some specific library requirement.

On top of that, Flatpak and AppImage exist to solve this issue if you don't want to deal with it.

This is a pretty rich statement coming from Proton who has very publicly given out "private" info about its users to law enforcement without even so much as a hint of resistance. I doubt they would want to spend any resources on cross platform if they don't even back up their claim about true privacy.

Even zoom has a lazy script that packages their app in literally every possible format possible because it runs the exact same on every distro. It is not that hard. Literally the only way this doesn't work if you hired some 3rd party MSFT dev to create some insane C++ app with pure Windows API calls instead of using a library.

[–] Illecors@lemmy.cafe 18 points 10 months ago

That's a bullshit excuse. Looks at Arch's AUR. Look at Gentoo's guru. What happens for proprietary stuff is a deb or rpm package is downloaded, extracted and files copies where they should be. That's it. And it works, because the cornerstone of the system is libc and the kernel. And these, for the overwhelming majority of applications, behave exactly the same on all distros.

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[–] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 33 points 10 months ago (4 children)

I don't use proton so forgive me if this is a stupid question...

But do you need an app? Can't you just use whatever browser you want for their services?

[–] mr_robot2938@lemmy.world 30 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Of course you can access everything through the web on Linux. I really like Proton's web mail interface. Unfortunately, Proton does not have a Linux analog to their windows client that provides automatic file syncing. I think that what the commenter is complaining about.

There is a dedicated Linux client for Proton VPN and in my experience it integrates quite well on Debian-based distributions.

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[–] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 12 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Also, there's Thunderbird if you NEED a fat client for your email. Except Proton's strength is where the service is located and the security of access. Having a full copy locally on your system kind of defeats that.

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[–] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 14 points 10 months ago (4 children)

I finally said screw it and am leaving Proton for a proper paid service. I never upgraded Proton to a paid tier because it never matured enough for me to use for real. I never once migrated contacts over to it (just a couple people who understood I was testing it).

Yea, so there's a connection to my credit card. At least it's with a professional org that has proper modern mail management (something post-2000), and gives you tools to manage your email.

I really wanted Proton to work out so I could recommend it to friends and family. But it's a terrible user experience. I missed 50 emails because it keeps moving them to spam even after I set the sender as not spam. Oh, and spam management requires (according to support) logging into the web, not thru the mobile client. 🤦‍♂️

Can you imagine telling a customer this with a straight face and not seeing a problem with it? I'm using your app and can't manage spam?

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[–] IndefiniteBen@leminal.space 61 points 10 months ago (11 children)

No shit. There's a reason they are killing the nice and simple Windows Mail app; it allows you to sync with your email without Microsoft servers between.

Also, the biggest issue for me is the UX. I use outlook for my work email and like to separate my work and personal life, so soon I just won't have an app for my personal email on my PC.

If anyone knows of a similar windows mail app with good touch support and without such a traditional mouse designed UI, please share it.

[–] Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 55 points 10 months ago (4 children)

The new thunderbird UI looked neat and modern.

[–] bob_lemon@feddit.de 19 points 10 months ago (3 children)

They're still working out some kinks, but yes, the new UI of Thunderbird 115+ is pretty good.

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[–] GigglyBobble@kbin.social 25 points 10 months ago (5 children)

I've been using Thunderbird since forever. It's not perfect but I like it better than bloated and laggy Outlook.

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[–] derin@lemmy.beru.co 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

I've been paying for mailspring for a few years now, and I love it. It has touch and gesture support, is open source, and is available on Windows, MacOS, and Linux.

Its paid plan includes some nice features like email tracking - which you can't really get from just a simple client and (needs a server to track who has opened an email and when) - and id lookup, for things like quickly seeing the LinkedIn profile of a sender not in your contacts list.

Definitely my favorite desktop client by a wide margin, and one I would recommend wholeheartedly.

Edit: Just to be clear, it's available for free as well.

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[–] Squizzy@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I really liked the mail app, the outlook one sucks

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[–] arc@lemm.ee 36 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I got a popup saying "wanna try the new Outlook app"? So I did and the fucking thing immediately inserted ads that resembled email into my inbox. If this is the future I'll install Thunderbird.

[–] lud@lemm.ee 12 points 10 months ago

Thunderbird is great!

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 35 points 10 months ago (8 children)

I tried the new outlook for about 30 seconds. They injected ads into my mail.

Instantly uninstalled it.

[–] balazs@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago (4 children)

I hope you changed your email account passwords after. What many people don’t realise is that when you fill out the “configure your email account” form, the details aren’t kept local to your PC. You are giving Microsoft the login details to your email account. This is a major departure from how Outlook and Windows Mail used to work.

So you’ve uninstalled the app, but how can you ensure they aren’t still polling your emails?

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[–] KneeTitts@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago (3 children)

the new version of thunderbird is amaaaazzzzing

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[–] rustydrd@sh.itjust.works 33 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (7 children)

For a few years, I had hope that Microsoft would become a respectable, user-oriented, even FOSS-friendly company, but they finally seem to have settled on AI enshitification as their main business model.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 18 points 10 months ago (3 children)

FOSS friendly company

I'm not sure what you are smoking but you're high as balls dude. If there is any company that has as it's motto "fuck and destroy open source" and as slogan "fuck everything for money", then it's Microsoft.

Microsoft paid SCO to make false claims against Linux in an attempt to destroy Linux and extort large companies away from Linux. The destroy part failed, but they got multiple large companies to steer away from Linux. Normal people would go to jail for that, Microsoft execs not so much.

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[–] randomaside@lemmy.dbzer0.com 30 points 10 months ago (2 children)

TBH when I got this exact pop up on my last windows laptop (dell xps13) I actually panicked and installed PopOS on it.

I didn't feel like distro hopping, I just needed it to work. I guess that shows how I feel about PopOS at the moment.

[–] Lemminary@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

I always chuckle at the name PopOS because in Spanish that means poops. I'm sorry.

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[–] rusticus@lemm.ee 25 points 10 months ago (4 children)

As someone with an iCloud account, every time I try to use Outlook it randomly deletes emails from my iCloud account. I’ve posted this multiple times on Microsoft support site with others confirming and since it’s been more than year with no acknowledgment or fix I am convinced it’s a feature not a bug. YMMV.

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[–] ExLisper@linux.community 22 points 10 months ago (4 children)

"I heard you like data collection so we put data collecting email app in your data collecting OS so we can collect data about our data collection"

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[–] Dagamant@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago

Yeah, that update was the final push that moved me to Linux on my primary computer. I’ve used Linux for about 20 years on everything that wasn’t my gaming PC and between the advancements made by Valve and the increasing invasive nature of Windows put an end to my relationship with Microsoft.

[–] stagen@feddit.dk 20 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

Uninstall that shit.

Edit: if you HAVE to use Outlook (because of work, etc), use the web version of it exclusively.

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[–] SuperSpruce@lemmy.zip 19 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This is why I don't get excited when I hear some software that I already use and works fine gets an update. More often than not the update makes the software worse.

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[–] Nahaelem@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

As if the old outlook app wasn’t as …. Oh Shit! This is more egregious

[–] OrangeCorvus@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I am aware this comes from a competitor and they want to go all out. However, what is unclear to me, does this also happen to paying users?

For my small business I use Office 365 Business Essentials, whatever it's called now, the cheapest one. Been using it for many years and for the price/features, it's pretty unbeatable. I use the new Outlook on my workstation since a few months, it's pretty slow and not feature complete but was ok. I'm in the EU and haven't been prompted with that window where it talks about advertisers. Will check Monday if I see a list of advertisers but I think for paid users it's not the same.

For personal mail, I use Thunderbird, I even donated to them. I like it but would have been great if it had a view like Outlook. At the moment it has table view and cards view. Wish the cards view would more customizable.

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[–] kworpy@lemm.ee 16 points 10 months ago

It's almost as if Microsoft doesn't do that already!

[–] Brkdncr@sh.itjust.works 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It’s basically gmail. It’s a web/email server that you give your creds over to . It has an offline mode that I guess makes it an app.

Yeah they read your shit.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

For consumers, yeah they scan your shit to sell advertisements to you. For Business customers —that could get real illegal real quick.

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