this post was submitted on 23 Mar 2024

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355

Russian TV airs fake video alleging Ukrainian involvement in terrorist attack, featuring Ukrainian official (www.pravda.com.ua)

submitted 7 months ago by Hubi@feddit.de to c/world@lemmy.world

49 comments fedilink hide all child comments

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[–] Rapidcreek@lemmy.world 174 points 7 months ago (3 children)

ISIS: “We did it”

Russia: “Liars”

Americans: “We told you this would happen”

Russia: “You didn’t tell us enough”

Americans: “Actually we were pretty specific”

ISIS: “Seriously though we did it.”

Russia: “No. It was Ukraine”

[–] Ranvier@sopuli.xyz 47 points 7 months ago

Even in their public warning they specified concerts specifically. I imagine the private warning to the Russian government was even more specific.

[–] w2tpmf@lemmy.world 12 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I pictured this as a Polandball strip.

[–] No_Eponym@lemmy.ca 4 points 7 months ago

!polandball@lemmy.world pleeeeeease!

[+] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world -33 points 7 months ago (4 children)

What motives does ISIS have to attack Russia? If ISIS was doing it out of some Islamic purpose then they would have attacked Israel.

Instead they attack Iran and Russia?

[–] Alterforlett@lemmy.world 24 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If I understand it correctly, and please correct me if I'm wrong, Russian interference in Syria has been exceptionally devastating for Isis in the region.

[–] dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You’ve been given some decent answers here so I just want to know what prompts a person to not believe this news.

So ISIS actually owns up to an attack and you want to doubt them and think nah, smells like Ukraine. Like why?

[+] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world -7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

The one thing most people would expect from a group that calls themselves "fundamentalist islamists" is that they would attack Israel by now.

It doesn't smell like Ukraine to me. They have no benefit from these false flags.

[–] dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 7 months ago

Again, if the horse is telling you they did it. Why doubt the horse?

This isn’t about Israel it’s about Syria.

Why should I believe your username is IndustryStandard?

[–] NIB@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Except Israel is one of the most secure countries against attacks like this, because they have experienced many attacks like this. And they are doing everything they can do to prevent similar attacks, including using racial profiling and other authoritarian tactics(apartheid).

It is much easier for radical islamists living in Russia, places like Dagestan/Chechnya or living in neighbouring muslim countries, to go to Russia.

Now you might say, why would they attack Russia? Because Russia has been attacking ISIS(and affiliates) in both Syria and Africa. And thats on top of the Chechen wars, Afghanistan invasion or maybe more relevant, the Tajikistani war(since the perpetrators seem to be from Tajikistan).

What you need to understand is that ISIS(ISIS-K) is against everyone. They are against the Taliban in Afghanistan, against Iran, against Pakistan, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_against_the_Islamic_State#Involvement_by_country

Literally every nation on earth(including Russia and China) is listed as actively opposing ISIS.

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

IDF chief finally acknowledges that Israel supplied weapons to Syrian rebels

[–] NIB@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

Ok. And this is relevant because?

[–] xor@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 7 months ago

Isis is anti-Shia, considering them infidels, and has a long history of conflict with Iran, especially in Iraq and Syria. Islam isn't some coordinated power system, it's a complex, fractious religion with many internal and external conflicts.

Russia, too, has been involved in lots of conflict with ISIS, including in Syria and more recently supporting north African countries' conflicts against them as well.

https://www-aljazeera-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/3/23/moscow-concert-hall-attack-why-is-isil-targeting

[–] General_Effort@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You need motive and opportunity. There are not many opportunities to carry out attacks in Israel at present.

Maybe most people do not know about the relationship between the Russian Empire and Islam. Today, over 10% of the population is Muslim. When you think of soviet soldiers fighting Nazi Germany, you need to assume an even higher percentage of the conscripts being Muslim; state atheism notwithstanding. I know these things, and yet Islam is not something I intuitively associate with Russia.

During the European Middle Ages, vast areas of what is now in the south of the Russian Empire were converted to Islam. In later centuries, these areas were conquered by the expanding Russian Empire. It's not quite a happy relationship. You may have heard of the genocide of the Crimean Tatars, particularly under Stalin. During the Cold War, majority Muslim Turkey was the only NATO country to have a border with the Soviet Empire. Nuclear missiles were stationed at that border, until they were removed as part of the secret agreement that came out of the Cuba Crisis.

Afghanistan has a long border with the Russian Empire. In the 1980ies, the Soviet Union embarked on an ill-conceived intervention to aid an even more ill-conceived revolution in Afghanistan. After 10 years of war, the troops were pulled out. This was then followed by another decade of civil war, which may have been dying down leading up to 9/11.

When the Soviet Empire dissolved, many ethnic groups achieved independence. That was not always peaceful. The fighting in Afghanistan seems to have had a certain spillover effect. For whatever reason, the Russian Army fought to maintain imperial dominance over some of these territories. Chechnya was especially brutally fought over.

Multiple terror raids have taken place in the last 30 years.

[–] IndustryStandard@lemmy.world -4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The Russian Afghanistan invasion is fifty years ago.

The American invasion of Afghanistan is only four years ago.

Sure there are motives and bad blood everywhere. But this timing just loses them all legitimacy if they truly want to "start an Islamic caliphate".

[–] Ranvier@sopuli.xyz 5 points 7 months ago

The Russian invasion of Afghanistan is just one chapter in an extensive history including genocide of Islamic peoples within its borders with many more recent events as well. Putin himself rose to power carpet bombing Chechnya. Even more recently, Russia literally going to Syria to attack Isis, where they still are stationed and fighting. Their efforts to keep Bashar Al Assad in power infuriated Isis. They also have their African forces recently assimilated from Wagner group attacking Islamic militants across Saharan Africa, some of which consider themselves branches of Isis. If "literally being attacked by them across the world as we speak right now" is not motive enough for them to attack back for you, I don't know what would convince you. This isn't even the first time Isis has claimed to attack Russia, there's been a string of attacks from Isis going back to 2015.

And Isis is opposed to the Taliban in Afghanistan and actively fighting them as well. I don't know what you're on about.

[–] TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee 104 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Damn. They are making it more and more likely the FSB let it happen or were behind it the whole time. They are forcing this narrative hard, lol.

[–] takeda@lemmy.world 54 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

What about ISIS admitting it, even sending a body cam from the attackers.

It reminds me of the Onion: https://youtu.be/Q_OIXfkXEj0

[–] Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works 9 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Admitting it*

[–] takeda@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Sorry, phone keyboard. I tried to fix it after, but now I'm getting an error.

Edit: looks like it works now

[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 6 points 7 months ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

https://piped.video/Q_OIXfkXEj0

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

[–] GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire

Same tactic

[–] Benaaasaaas@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Or something from their own playbook https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 49 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Of course it does. Not that it was a false flag necessarily, but it was obvious that an attack like this would be used to increase pressure in the war either way IMO.

[–] lgmjon64@lemmy.world 49 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Never let a good tragedy go to waste

[–] ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world 7 points 7 months ago

Pretty much what I feel about it. It's still to early to tell what exactly this tragedy is, though I'm not surprised that it's being used by the Kremlin.

[–] troyunrau@lemmy.ca 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

I spent an hour today trying to find a real source for this quote, often misattributed to Churchill. And failed. Found some sources saying it predates Churchill, but no direct references. Seems an adage that is quite old though.

[–] vulture_god@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 7 months ago

I've always heard it attributed (in a slightly different form) to Rahm Emmanuel, e.g. :

Never let a good crisis go to waste

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 29 points 7 months ago (1 children)

All you need to know in order to know that Ukraine was not responsible is Ukraine outright stating that they are not responsible.

Because if they were responsible, they'd be telling everyone in no uncertain terms that Moscow was not safe from Ukrainian reprisals and this was just a warning.

[–] Crashumbc@lemmy.world 11 points 7 months ago

One thing Ukraine has shown so far, is they aren't stupid. The last thing they would do anyway is attack civilians.

[–] SteefLem@lemmy.world 20 points 7 months ago

Damnit i should be putting money on these things. Its all so predictable its almost funny (its not)

[–] bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 5 points 7 months ago

Putin must be furious that so many russians were killed and wounded and they didn’t even try to take a village.

[–] MrNesser@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (5 children)

The whole bit about the perpetrators fleeing to the Ukrainian border I actually kinda believe.

Not because ukraine was involved but its got to be the only border anyone can get through at the moment within easy distance from moscow.

Everyone else has shut their borders

Edit: yes I know its a war zone yes I know its monitored. I also believe that you can never fully secure a land border there will always be holes AND the scum who shoot up a concert hall are not exactly at the top of the IQ range when it comes to escape plans.

[–] Hubi@feddit.de 42 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Nah, I don't buy this story at all. Their car had Belarussian plates and that border is much closer and still open. I'd even argue that the UKR/RUS border is the worst place to cross with checkpoints, mines and drones everywhere. They would've been safer hiding out in a random village somewhere.

[–] MrNesser@lemmy.world 12 points 7 months ago

Fleeing to Belarus might as well mean staying in Russia

Of course we will never know the truth I'm sure they will have unhappy accidents next to windows

[+] circuscritic@lemmy.ca -7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Assuming they (ISIS) have active members on the other side, and a corridor established, fleeing into Ukraine would be probably significantly safer - assuming Russian and Ukrainian internal security services aren't sharing intelligence and otherwise cooperating while they're engaged in a hot conflict.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Don't be that dumb.

You can't cross a warzone, especially as a third party. If the Russians won't shoot them (they would) the Ukrainians would.

It has shit to do with Ukraine, it's just the typical Russia cop out, same mo as trump, just lie straight against all evidence. Repeat it enough and as long as your own base believes it, nothing else matters

[–] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Do you realize how vast that geography is, and that civilians travel through it daily?

Also, they had just gunned down hundreds of civilians, their motivation to leave Russian controlled territory, including Belaruse, was probably pretty high on their hierarchy of needs. Escaping into a country that Russia is at war with, seems like a safer option that sticking around anywhere with an FSB or ICRF field office.

I said nothing about Ukrainian involvement, or complicity, as I haven't seen any evidence to support that, nor do I believe they would be.

So, take your own advice and don't be that dumb.

[–] DarkThoughts@fedia.io 23 points 7 months ago

Crossing a warzone with both sides being trigger happy, covering the whole region with trenches, checkpoints, mines, drones and other troops. Yeah, totally logical choice.

[–] Rapidcreek@lemmy.world 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It's the world's most observed and mined border. The last place anyone on the run would go

[–] michael_palmer@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 7 months ago

Small areas of russian land near the border is not controlled by russian army since March 12.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 10 points 7 months ago

Eeehh, you do understand that the border with Ukraine is a warzone wasteland where they'd first have to pass the actual russian army?

It makes the least sense of all

[–] Hotzilla@sopuli.xyz 2 points 7 months ago

Why people trust Russia to even have captured the attackers? They probably just stopped someone driving towards Ukraine and "these are the guys, pack them up"