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The fake libertarian starterpack
(lemmy.world)
Says “I’m a libertarian but I’m not one of those crazy ones”.
My followup question is usually what’s your opinion on seatbelt laws and drivers licenses.
Both are necessary, there's an argument to strengthen the latter, and neither violate the NAP. I'm not one of those crazy ones 😁
violate the NAP
not one of those crazy ones
These two statements contradict each other.
The NAP is a substitute for laws for "libertarians" who can't tolerate the thought of other people actually being free.
The entire point is to have something that proactively justifies the forcible imposition of your will upon others. So the instant that somebody does something of which you disapprove, you can decree, by whatever rationale might serve, that it's a violation of the NAP, so you're now entirely justified in shooting them.
Not really. It only seems that way because most of us have only had experiences with the psychotic capitalist neo-libertarians of the Murray Rothbard school.
Actual libertarians, left libertarians. Can definitely get pretty squirrely when you get out on the fringes of ideologic anarchists etc. But many are fairly rational and even generally pro social democracy.
Right-wing libertarians are just an oxymoron. Under capitalism none of us can truly be free and we are all subject to the whims of wealth hoarding psychotic oligarch monkeys. They'll tell you that you're free not to work for them. The only problem is choosing not to work for them means choosing starvation, homelessness, and death. Which isn't the sort of thing that should be considered a choice in any civil society. But absolute necessities for unsustainable systems such as capitalism.
Mfw I vote for a 3rd party candidate who aligns with many of my ideals and both a Democrat and a Republican break down my doors screaming that I wasted my vote and should vote (person) because its (not the other person) even though I don't agree with either shitheads policies or agendas.
Then they're gonna complain about how the system is shit.
Literally just vote third parties and kick those dinosaurs out of congress
Yea I have lately found myself very frustrated with liberals, and politics as a whole lately. I browse both right and left stuff online and they each mirror eachothers sentiments like sports team fandoms. The liberals just hold the dnc party line in the name of fighting fascism cause most of them have done extremely well in the current political and economic climate, whether they admit it or not, capitalism and american democracy has suited them just fine and they don't wanna release the pearls just yet. The right is just shit, tho there are some lines of logic from conservatives I don't outright dismiss, but they're mostly just ignorant assholes. 🤷 I voted Biden, I will again, but the whole wasted vote shit is just laughable tbh. Give me something good, and I'll pick it.
Don't call leftists "liberals", it's inaccurate af
Btw don't complain about the current landscape just to then say you're voting the party that is just like the other instead of voting a third party
In the context of the comments here, no one really wants to give any libertarians the benefit of the doubt huh? Like maybe there are some folks out there who have a well thought out perspective and aren't a caricature you learned about from memes.
I'm not libertarian, I'm just tired of the brain dead political takes you can find on the internet.
Maybe I should quit the internet.
I often say that the only thing more embarrassing than being a Libertarian is not growing out of it
What do you think is embarrassing about libertarianism? What is so objectionable about resisting oppression? What is so objectionable about maximising each individuals rights, and freedoms?
You've hit on exactly what I think is embarrassing - Libertarians claim to champion those things but in practice they are all cover for ultra individualist 'I got mine' ways of thinking. I've seen that kind of thinking take over in some towns near me where they weren't sure how they were going to repair streets or keep the streetlights on because "private entities will have a natural interest in handling those things" but they never do.
I'm a huge fan of half of the libertarian platform - legal abortions, legalized drugs, etc. - but those are the things Libertarians seem the least interested in actually enacting. And that's because sure maybe some of them support those ideas, but they like the idea of fewer taxes and fewer regulations to help their bottom line a lot more.
It's embarrassing because it is conclusive that we are better when we work together and combine our efforts, and Libertarianism only drags us apart.
they are all cover for ultra individualist ‘I got mine’ ways of thinking.
Maximizing individual freedoms is not implying that it is at the expense of the freedoms of others.
I’ve seen that kind of thinking take over in some towns near me where they weren’t sure how they were going to repair streets or keep the streetlights on because “private entities will have a natural interest in handling those things” but they never do.
Hm, streetlights would fall into a category of something called a natural monopoly. A Georgist would probably say that natural monopolies should be owned, or tightly regulated by the state -- a monopoly is inherently anti-competitive, as a result, it is fundamentally opposed to a competitive free market.
legal abortions
I will say, with certainty, that there is borderline zero consensus across all libertarians on how abortions should be handled. This is a tricky issue. I personally think that any solution will lie entirely within the grey, rather than the black and white. I suspect that no solution will be agreeable to all.
Libertarians seem the least interested in actually enacting
This is a dubious statement -- it falsely generalizes to all libertarians. It entirely depends on who you talk to.
And that’s because sure maybe some of them support those ideas, but they like the idea of fewer taxes and fewer regulations to help their bottom line a lot more.
While, yes, fewer taxes, and regulation increase profits, that's not their only purpose. Reductions in those result in increases in scale of the free market. It could be argued, dependent on circumstance, whether such decreases are actually beneficial, or not, but, at any rate, reductions in taxes and regulations don't only serve the purpose of lining the pockets of special interest groups.
It’s embarrassing because it is conclusive that we are better when we work together and combine our efforts, and Libertarianism only drags us apart.
While, idealistically, it would be great if all humans could work together, real life is unfortunately far from ideal.
I appreciate your point by point response but I need to clarify that I am not arguing with you about Libertarianism in theory but in a tual practice. it is one thing to get behind it theoretically, but to see how it works in practice and still support it is what I find embarrassing.
this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2023
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