Oh, good, they're not a tankie, they're just a Soviet simp who thinks Anti-Imperialism(tm) is justification for genocide and ethnic cleansing, and opposes any anti-fascist candidate that's not 100% in-line with their ideology. Definitely a big practical difference there, glad I was corrected.
Oh, yes, support of Russia is advocacy for peace, in the same way that an advocate for surrender to Nazi Germany is an 'advocate for peace'. But hey, if it's genocide done by an Anti-Imperialist Power(tm), it's actually 100% peaceful killing, right?
How many Buchas and how many thousands of children kidnapped until supporting Russia is no longer anti-imperialist?
Don't worry - I know you have no limit.
I'm not sure 'might makes right' is the anti-imperial argument you're looking for here.
I’m not sure ‘might makes right’ is the anti-imperial argument you’re looking for here.
lmao, yet it's the argument that all of your comrades resort to with regards to the Ukrainian situation.
At least it's not 'we'll give you the means to destroy yourself in service of hurting Russia' like all of your western buddies like arguing.
"Defending yourself against genocide is actually destroying yourself"
Want to remind me how this ISN'T a might makes right argument, the kind of which you supposedly were against just one comment ago?
You can't stay consistent for a single comment. Unbelievable. But anything to simp for fascists, I guess. I'm sorry, 'Anti-Imperialist Fascists'.
Supplying a nation of 38 million with weapons against a nation of 144 million doesn't ensure them victory against Russia.
If the west genuinely wanted to prevent a genocide they would be supplying them with personnel, too. By drawing out the conflict without giving them a way out of attrition more Ukrainians will die.
The west cares more about hurting Russia than they do about Ukrainian lives.
Ah, yes, when Ukraine has explicitly refused the possibility of Western personnel fighting the war on their behalf. I'm so glad to see that the wishes of the democratically elected Ukrainian government deserve to be discarded, in your view, in exchange for a distinctly paternalist interventionism. Since that's no longer popular in the West, it's not going to happen.
Obviously, since intervening ourselves isn't an option, the only correct thing to do is to let the stronger country win. But it's not might makes right! It's only might makes right when you disagree with it, right?
Ukraine had a treaty they were ready to accept when the west objected to it and pushed them to push the effort forward.
'Let the stronger country win' is a contradiction, either they are the stronger country and they will won, or it isn't just Ukraine fighting it and Russia isn't the stronger opponent.
The west wants to not get involved in the war but they don't want Russia to win, that's the definition of wating your cake and having it to.
Ukraine had a treaty they were ready to accept when the west objected to it and pushed them to push the effort forward.
lmao, this misinformation again. You keep repeating the talking points you hear Putin make when Tucker Carlson is interviewing him. You're no different than any other right-wing chud other than a coat of red paint.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ukraine/talks-could-have-ended-war-ukraine
I'm too cheap to pay for access to the article, but they were close to an agreement. Here's the summary as I heard it (summarized from wiki)
Charap and Radchenko argued that four factors in combination led to failure to achieve agreement. According to them, three factors involved specific stakeholders: the unwillingness of Ukraine's Western partners to provide security guarantees; Ukrainian public anger at the Bucha atrocities; and Zelenskyy's increased confidence in a military solution with the failure of the Russian attempt to take over Kyiv. The fourth factor listed by Charap and Radchenko was that solving geopolitical security issues while ignoring immediate peace processes for detailed security issues such as humanitarian corridors, ceasefirea, and the withdrawal of military forces was overambitious, "aim[ing] too high, too soon
But whatever you'd like to believe. You've only so far expressed your desire for Russia to lose and haven't alluded to any concessions you'd find acceptable, so I have to assume you're happy with all-out war until Ukraine wins or loses completely
the unwillingness of Ukraine’s Western partners to provide security guarantees
You... you do realize that the meaning of that isn't "The West wanted more war" right?
... right?
I'm just pointing out the argumentative failure.
I don't disagree with anything you said, but it's just not an argument against imperialism. If anything it's an argument for multi-polarity, but even then I don't think it's the kind of multipolarity leftists are looking for.
Oh, good, they're not a lib, they're just an Israeli simp who thinks Pro-Imperialism^tm^ is justification for genocide and ethnic cleansing, and opposes any anti-fascist that's protesting against the genocide i'm ok with (and not the genocide I'm not ok with).
Here I thought being for the suspension of ALL aid to Israel, not just for the ongoing genocide but for being an apartheid ethnostate, might have implied that I was anti-Israel, but here I learn that I'm an Israeli simp. How fascinating!
"I'm in support of all the most progressive and leftist ideals, but they are sadly not practical so anyone pushing for them must be treated as controlled opposition"
Yes, because as we all know, pushing for Trump to win a presidential election is DEFINITELY in support of progressive and leftist ideals!
I apologize for being a Bernie voter, I guess.
Pushing for progressive ideals =! Pushing for Trump to win
Jesus with you, everything you don't like is a vote for trump
Pushing for progressive ideals =! Pushing for Trump to win
I'm pushing for progressive ideals. The difference is, I'm not doing it while saying that it's okay not to vote for the anti-fascist candidate if you feel really strongly that fascism winning is preferable to Teach The Dems A Lesson(tm) or Show Your Moral Fortitude(tm).
I'm not saying it's OK not to vote, I'm saying expecting people to get on board with democrats when they have 5 months to correct their shit is dumb.
Make your decision when the cards have been played
You've gone from "voting blue is supporting genocide" to "harm reduction is a legitimate strategy" in minutes. Amazing.
They went from "Might makes right is imperialism!" to "Might makes right" in two comments elsewhere. All there is is contrarianism.
Right now voting blue is supporting genocide. Doesn't mean it has to stay that way, which is why 'endorsing' a candidate now 3 months before the Democratic convention is dumb
What's the solution then?
Protest against democrats who are supporting the genocide.
And that'll fix everything?
Since when was I telling you how to solve everything?
Go fight for what you claim you believe in and stop complaining about others who are
Israel was doing bad shit to Palestine for decades. How many times did you so see Pro Palestine posts in mass before, almost never. Sure it’s worse, but if “leftists” cared so much, why did this huge outcry wait till it’s at it’s absolute worst? Seems real convenient it’s around an election where fascist states known for using troll farms have a vested interest in a Biden loss. Especially when the only candidate who has any chance of making a pro-Palestine compromise is in danger of losing. No one believes Trump will compromise at all and Biden is literally brokering a compromise now. What drives the myriad “true leftists” to prove their point now, at the least opportune possible time? Seems like they have ulterior motives and they’re just hiding behind your claims of leftism.
Isn't it weird how "genuine leftists" always seem to have unbounded love for a state capitalist nation which produces hundreds of billionaires? Maybe that's what the others are shocked about.
Isn't it weird how liberals have unbounded love for a state capitalist nation which produces hundreds of billionares?
Lol what a weird critique to choose
Sorry, which liberals are pretending to be economically left while simping for an openly capitalist nation? I thought you guys hated liberals specifically because they aren't leftists, suddenly they are leftists and hypocrites about capitalism?
We hate liberals because they claim to share our ideals while they act against them
Because they understand the mathematics of FPTP voting, a differentiation such that they don't make the same choices than you, which you deliberately choose to interpret as acting against your ideals.
They agree with the mathematics, otherwise they'd be out protesting like everyone else already is
"OH noooooo..."
"....Anyway."
What protests? If anyone near me is protesting FPTP I am down to join in.
Thank god those other civil rights protests didn't happen under FPTP, otherwise they'd never have gotten anything done.
What protests am I missing? It is starting to sound like liberals and progressives could show up to every protest you do and you'd still whine about it.
Maybe they are, how would i know, but in their not-so-private corner of the internet they keep congratulating themselves for being able to hold their nose and castigate those of us who continue demanding they take action as trump enablers. They keep jumping to the November 5 decision as if the options have been cast in stone, when Biden still has time to fix this. If you let him ignore the issue and stop raising it, why would he bother when quietly supporting Israel nets him more campaign contributions?
Nobody is calling protesters Trump enablers. Go for it, I hate that bullshit also. But I will continue calling all the bothsidesing third party voters Trump enablers, because they are.
Tu quoque (/tjuːˈkwoʊkwiː/;[1] Latin for 'you also') is a discussion technique that intends to discredit the opponent's argument by attacking the opponent's own personal behavior and actions as being inconsistent with their argument, so that the opponent is hypocritical. This specious reasoning is a special type of ad hominem attack. The Oxford English Dictionary cites John Cooke's 1614 stage play The Cittie Gallant as the earliest known use of the term in the English language.[1]
Yeah the pro-trans group thinking they are left wing is odd when leftists argue against gender roles and identity but that’s just one issue. I guess when they compare themselves to people that want to kill anyone different they overestimate how far left they are
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