That's right, US isn't fighting for some values or abstract freedoms, it's fighting to secure the right of the oligarchs to plunder the resources of Ukraine. Anybody who still doesn't understand this has a brain as smooth as a bowling ball.

[–] LarkinDePark@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

It originally was trying to plunder the resources of Russia again, like they did in the 90's. They miscalculated and now are settling for Ukraine.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 4 months ago

That was supposed to be the big prize, and Balkanizing Russia would allow US to surround China with puppet regimes in the west. RAND even helpfully outlined the strategy in a paper they published back in 2019 https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html

[–] biribiri11@lemmy.ml 12 points 4 months ago (10 children)

Mmm Russian propagandists going hard today, or rather, as hard as ever, ensuring to amplify the messages of individuals who already have questionable allegiance to the US in the first place. Just keep in mind the Ukrainians still want to fight. It’s not like the US are the ones trying to kill the Ukrainian president to get their way.

[–] BoJo@discuss.tchncs.de 23 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Tell that to the millions of Ukrainians who've fled Ukraine for Europe

[–] Black_Mald_Futures@hexbear.net 16 points 4 months ago

Finally a good take from @discuss.tchncs.de

[–] Doubledee@hexbear.net 19 points 4 months ago

People who don't want Russia to acquire resources and think they should be stopped from getting them by force are not pro-Russia. Graham ALSO wants them to fight, you are in complete agreement with him. Are you also a Ruzzian stooge?

[–] Kumikommunism@hexbear.net 19 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

individuals who already have questionable allegiance to the US

He's protecting US global financial interests. How is his allegiance any less than any other senator? Substantiate this.

Just keep in mind the Ukrainians still want to fight.

Americans still wanted to fight at the end of the Vietnam war. I can show you many statements. The question is which Ukrainians. Substantiate this.

It’s not like the US are the ones trying to kill the Ukrainian president to get their way.

The US has tried to assassinate foreign leaders for political convenience 100s of times over the past 100 years. The US is morally inferior to Russia, which is already incredibly morally corrupt.

[–] Black_Mald_Futures@hexbear.net 18 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Which Ukrainians want to fight until they're all dead, the ones kept in the country by closed borders, the ones who are press ganged into service by conscription "recruiters"?

Russian propagandists

I love that you think you're like idk not some brainwashed idiot (like we are ofc) when, due to propaganda, you literally write off anyone critical of NATO's imperialism as "Russian propagandists"

Super great display of critical thinking

[–] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works -4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Polling in Ukraine consistently puts approval of Zelensky's handling of the war at around 90%.

Please actually try listening to the people you're speaking on behalf of before you speak.

[–] o_d@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 4 months ago

Lmao. You're going to need to provide a source for that one.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 14 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Just keep in mind the Ukrainians still want to fight.

The Azov Battalion still wants to fight, maybe. It might be more accurate to say that the Ukrainian government still wants its conscripts to fight.

[–] LarkinDePark@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 4 months ago

Those cowards never want to fight. They stay behind and send the cannon fodder to fight for them. That's why there's so many of them left.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 11 points 4 months ago

Will you stop lying already. The regime the west installed in Ukraine is literally kidnapping people off the street and forcing them to fight. Even western propagandists are now admitting this, yet here you are spreading blatant misinformation https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/15/world/europe/ukraine-military-recruitment.html

[–] shreddy_scientist@lemmy.ml 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Pretty similar to the US invasion of Ukraine in 2014 where the President left in desperation to prevent his murder. Two wrongs definitely don't make a right, but after the US overthrew the country's government they should have understood they were going to encounter retaliation at some point.

[–] protist@mander.xyz 4 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Yeah buddy, the US invaded Ukraine in 2014 lmao

I realize you're going to try to come back at me with a bunch of "evidence" that the US worked with and supported the Maidan, but that's all true. What's also true is that the Ukrainian people are the ones who actually did the work there.

When Russia invaded Ukraine in Feb 2022, it was Russians invading. Physically invading with tanks, infantry, and artillery. In the Maidan in 2014, the Ukrainian people revolted against their government after it abandoned efforts to align with Europe in favor of aligning with Russia. The Ukrainian people want to align with Europe and the West.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 months ago

This sort of idiocy would be hilarious if it didn't lead to hundreds of thousands of people dying.

[–] shreddy_scientist@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Ok, so you're super critical only to concepts which oppose the side of the story you believe to be true? Have you ever applied this same level of scrutiny to the information you approve of? Until this takes place, you can't logically be confident in your stance whatsoever. But, do whatever makes you happy, I won't argue against it. Yet it's ridiculous to write off anything in opposition just cause it's not as you understand it.

Here's the sources you more or less asked for, I made sure it's from mainstream sources seeing as you're opposed to independent media for whatever reason.

UK Government coving Ukraine in 2014: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9476/

Here's a NewYorker article covering it too: https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine

[–] protist@mander.xyz 0 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I thought you said that he was not interested in taking Kyiv.

No, he’s interested in taking Kyiv for the purpose of regime change. O.K.?

As opposed to what?

As opposed to permanently conquering Kyiv.

It would be a Russian-friendly government that he would presumably have some say over, right?

Yes, exactly. But it’s important to understand that it is fundamentally different from conquering and holding onto Kyiv. Do you understand what I’m saying?

Lmao I don't know what you think you're proving by sharing an interview with this guy. This is literally one person's opinion, and a weak one at that lol

[–] shreddy_scientist@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Not sources I know at all, just trying to provide something that an individual who thinks Scheerpost is Russian propaganda for some illogical reason will give more validity. All mainstream propaganda spins the story to paint the US as the hero, which alone should make you highly curious of the other side to the story.

But based on your user name, it makes way more sense a primative eukaryotic lifeform struggles to decipher the massive bias from mainstream news sources these days lol.

[–] protist@mander.xyz -1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Based on what did you come to the conclusion I think this website is Russian propaganda? I'm talking about you, and what you said, that the "US invaded Ukraine first." It doesn't say that anywhere here.

Of fucking course mineral wealth is part of this conversation. Putin the as explicitly stated as much, and there's a reason he went after oil-rich portions of Ukraine first. Russia is trying to take Ukraine's mineral wealth away from its people, while ethnically cleansing the land it has taken. This is not "western propaganda," Russia has admitted to removing Ukrainian civilians involuntarily into Russia and taking their children from them to be raised by Russians.

I'm attuned to the study of Chomsky, Bernays, et al, and try to get information from a variety of worldwide sources. Being discerning about western bias in our own news media doesn't mean you should reflexively believe whatever comes out of Russia, bro.

[–] TheLepidopterists@hexbear.net 5 points 4 months ago

Why is it necessary to cancel all consular services for Ukrainian men if they're so eager to fight? Are you sure the bloodlust and desire for battle you're perceiving isn't your own?

[–] The_Che_Banana@beehaw.org -3 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Cant miss with a stellar news organization like...scheerpost dot com?

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Oh yay it’s Che Banana again. I’ll take Robert Scheer over US corporate media any day of the week.

Here are some uncontroversial Wikipedia entries for you. Bog-standard stuff that’s taught in schools of marketing, public relations, political science, history, and journalism.

[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 2 points 4 months ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

Noam Chomsky - The 5 Filters of the Mass Media Machine

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

[–] lps@lemmy.ml 10 points 4 months ago

Bringing peace is surprisingly lucrative -- for weapons contractors, black rock and now the mining industry, huh 🙈