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submitted 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) by quarrk@hexbear.net to c/marxism@hexbear.net

Saw this comment on the commie side of TikTok. My gut tells me this is ultraleft bs, but perhaps my fellow hexbears can educate me on this discussion which I’m sure is not new.

I don’t see how a poor American on food stamps is responsible, even though a systematic analysis reveals that international superexploitation is a thing.

The American proletariat can and should organize in any case. I don’t see how Americans can build any sort of socialist movement if any organization at all is accused of being hypocritical.

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[-] PosadistInevitablity@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago

Unlimited genocide on the first world.

If you’re living in America especially, you are not innocent.

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[-] Commiejones@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago

I kinda agree. Improving conditions in the first world entrench the status quo. If material conditions in the first world are not correct to inspire a mass movement to overthrow capital how are better living conditions going to help? All it does is make people more content. Any gains in living conditions for the first world come out of further exploitation of the third world.

[-] itappearsthat@hexbear.net 5 points 4 months ago

What is your opinion on leftists living in an israeli settlement?

[-] marxisthayaca@hexbear.net 3 points 4 months ago

It depends on how you want to improve conditions. If it doesn’t involve the abolition of the empire, then yeah, you are a class traitor or worse, a labor aristocrat.

[-] orangejuche@hexbear.net 1 points 4 months ago

There are certainly things we can improve in the imperial core but it would be a lie to say that the quality of life won’t go down for nearly everyone inside it. Let’s take the United States for example, ideally it should be broken up into multiple socialist republics, if nuclear weapons are used in the inevitable war that get us there parts of it that were formally populated will become not so. The thing with reactionaries is that yes we are a threat to their way of life, our empowerment will result in their disenfranchisement. And let me say that we do not want to create human suffering for even reactionaries, but a lot of people particularly the global south will want revenge and we are going to have to let them have it as a matter of practicality. What differentiates us from ultra leftists is we aren’t trying to have communism surpass christanity, capitalism, fascism, feudalism, and every other kind of societal system in terms of bodycount, we don’t want communism to be the most violent thing in human history, but ultra leftists do. The thing with posadists and nukes for example is that yes nukes can theoretically bring about the conditions necessary for communism but mainline communists like us don’t want nuclear war, we may joke about it, we might see it as an option in a fictional hypothetical, we may even relish the well earned suffering of the west because they deserve it, but we are not willing to tarnish communism with the deaths of billions to achieve our aims. Focus building socialism in your own home before you export it to others you know. That’s not to say there isn’t value to internationalism but socialism shouldn’t be exported from the imperial core. There’s a place to be aggressive, a place to be cruel, but overall we don’t want to be aggressive and cruel.

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this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2024
104 points (98.1% liked)

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