this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2024
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What should the policy for racism be in schools? (hexbear.net)
submitted 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) by temp_acc@hexbear.net to c/askchapo@hexbear.net
22 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Hi! I am a member of a race education group in my school (11 to 18). We were discussing instances of racism and came to the conclusion that the school - teachers, especially - were not giving proper or effective repercussions for racist incidents. Racism in the school is quite normalised, especially against Black and Asian students, including:

CW: list of racist incidents

  • Calling black people "monkeys", unnecessarily calling them "fast" and that they "should be at the back of the bus"
  • Playing stereotypical Indian music and linking brown people to "curry" and tech-support scammers
  • The Chinese, Japanese, dirty knees chant and mocking the Chinese language

Most teachers report the incident, triggering an investigation into what happened; the student(s) are usually suspended - possibly being temporarily transferred to another school - the offending student(s) are talked to by senior staff members and attend anti-racism sessions. This approach feels appropriate, although I want to hear your thoughts on it as racism is still a significant issue in the school.

In addition, quite a few teachers instead push to "settle the matter" in-class (say sorry, shake hands) or give lesser punishments that are intended for things like swearing or talking over the teacher. These are not appropriate punishments and shouldn't be tolerated. Bigotry is never equivalent to just rude behaviour or minor arguments (that includes bullying).

The school administration has been made aware of our thoughts and fortunately they are very open to the idea of writing a clearer and more effective policy on racism in the school.

Do teachers need to be trained better on their tolerance of racism? Is the policy not corrective enough? How would you write a racism policy for a school for 11 to 18 year olds?

Thanks again!

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[–] footfaults@hexbear.net 16 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

The problem is that teachers don't really have many tools in the toolbox when it comes to classroom management. Like, they really only have a couple small tools that they can use, and then there's a couple large tools that have serious consequences (suspension, sending them to the disciplinarian, etc)

Like, teachers can only manage the classroom for as long as the students perceive that the teacher is in control, and that perception is a fragile thing.

I would like to think that all teachers are not tolerant of racist behavior by students against other students and will try and stop it when they see it.

I think the main thing that your group needs to do, is train your fellow students to not tolerate this kind of behavior and call it out when they see it.

Peer pressure is FAR MORE powerful than what a teacher can do by themselves. I think that, ideally, if there was a racist incident that happened, and the teacher AS WELL as a group of students called it out as being unacceptable, that would be far more powerful and effective. Social shaming is a powerful thing and having students call out other students for racist behavior is far more powerful than a teacher or authority figure saying it's bad by themselves.

Find some teachers that you think would be receptive, and ask them to join your group.

(Full disclosure I had some formal education in being an educator but never taught, so I could be naive)

[–] temp_acc@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago

I think the main thing that your group needs to do, is train your fellow students to not tolerate this kind of behavior and call it out when they see it.

Yes; our primary aim is to educate people on racism as a means to prevent people from being racist in the first place. We're also aiming to motivate students to report racist incidents as there is a culture of not snitching on other students, even with racism.

Peer pressure is FAR MORE powerful than what a teacher can do by themselves. I think that, ideally, if there was a racist incident that happened, and the teacher AS WELL as a group of students called it out as being unacceptable, that would be far more powerful and effective. Social shaming is a powerful thing and having students call out other students for racist behavior is far more powerful than a teacher or authority figure saying it's bad by themselves.

Our group is composed of students only, and we believe that makes it more appealing and approachable to new members as there are usually no teachers there. We have had new members join the group because they wanted to report a racist incident, but they felt that a teacher wouldn't do enough against it - or too intimidated - and that allowed us to collectively report a few students already!

Find some teachers that you think would be receptive, and ask them to join your group.

We plan to meet with the school leadership every month to discuss any concerns or plans we have. It would be nice for other teachers to come every once in a while, though maybe not in every session.

[–] Vaggumon@lemm.ee 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Back in the 90's when I was in high school, my school had a zero tolerance policy. Anyone who used racist language, or committed violent acts against a minority was expelled. There were investigations, police were called, etc. But if the events were found to be race based, the perpetrator would be expelled. A black and Indian girl got int o a fight over a boy. The black girl called the Indian girl a sand n-word. Black girl got expelled. Another event was two friends calling each other the n-word, not even fighting, both got expelled due to the word being on the banned list. A teacher got fired for calling a Chinese kid something too, though don't remember what it was. This was in LA California if that helps. My 5 years there, saw at least a dozen expelled or fired.

[–] temp_acc@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

police were called

I don't think calling the police would be a good idea given their reputation of brutality against people of color and the fact that it would rely on more of a tactic of fear against children.

My 5 years there, saw at least a dozen expelled or fired.

Firing teachers for racism is a good stance for me! We'll probably still push for temporary suspension rather than expulsion unless they are a repeat offender.

Edit: Removed idea of calling the police as I have since changed my opinion.

[–] LanyrdSkynrd@hexbear.net 7 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm very far from an kind of authority on how to handle school discipline, but calling police to school seems like a very bad idea. Cops and prisons don't solve problems.

[–] temp_acc@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago

Oh, I see. For me, I would evaluate the idea of calling the police to school like this:

  • Further clarifies the weight of racist incidents and the zero-tolerance policy that the school has for it
  • Relies on a tactic of fear, plus the police are a major source of racism

In that perspective, inviting the police does seem like a very bad idea. Though I still like the idea of at least including senior members of staff to talk to the students as they should further clarifiy the severity of racism.

[–] gay_king_prince_charles@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago

Soup that makes you blind for a day

[–] GaveUp@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I would personally do a policy to post their pictures on the walls and publicly shame them for their offence with that. Teaches them its not acceptable and that it's something they should be shunned by everybody for. Could help create a mob mentality against racism too

[–] temp_acc@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I would personally do a policy to post their pictures on the walls and publicly shame them for their offence with that. Teaches them its not acceptable and that it's something they should be shunned by everybody for. Could help create a mob mentality against racism too

Quite a few of us in the group did consider this idea, but I highly doubt the school would allow that as the students and parents may see it as a form of harassment. We would like more combative measures against racism, though.

Digressing: don't have much experience with this unfortunately because in my highschool that had Chinese people as the plurality race and less white people than POC, there was actually very little racism, and the one small group of white kids who hated Asians transferred out specifically there were too many Asians so they kinda solved our own problems for us

That does sound like a more welcoming space! In your case, the varying attitudes towards racism between white and non-white people was very apparent to the point that racism wasn't even an issue. I did discuss the idea that white people have to do more to combat racism as they will naturally find it harder to condemn something they don't experience in this comment.

[–] GaveUp@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

but I highly doubt the school would allow that as the students and parents may see it as a form of harassment

Is there any harm in pitching the idea? Obviously not as your only one but as part of a group of solutions for your teachers to okay and sign off on

Could even do some sly tricks where most of the options are obvious No but then sneak this option in as the "moderate" position

[–] temp_acc@hexbear.net 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Is there any harm in pitching the idea? Obviously not as your only one but as part of a group of solutions for your teachers to okay and sign off on

Not really, though I am certain that that policy would not be allowed. Maybe I'll pitch it as part of a range of possible approaches, although the policy itself is a major privacy violation (along with legal repercussions), especially as the students are children.

I do like the idea of publicly shaming students, though. What do you think about these approaches?

  • Name-and-shame lists in classrooms:
    • Consistent source of shame for the student, though this approach would be more effective for younger students than older students.
  • Public apology:
    • The offending student(s) would apologise in an assembly in front of the students in their grade. Would greatly increase their shame and hold them to account in front of all of their classmates.

Admittedly, it's hard thinking of policies centred around public shaming without being too oriented towards younger students (below 11) or being legally questionable for children (above 18). I'm sure that your idea would be more accepted in a university, for example.

Could even do some sly tricks where most of the options are obvious No but then sneak this option in as the "moderate" position

Haha tempting but I don't know if that will work as a strategy! Though in our meetings with school leadership, I'm sure that individual members will make similar points to the ones that you are making to see how receptive they are to them.

[–] GaveUp@hexbear.net 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What do you think about these approaches?

I'm hesitate to give any advice since I know nothing about your school and this situation. I also wasn't involved in any hs activities

[–] temp_acc@hexbear.net 1 points 3 months ago

Okay, that's fine. I will be taking all of these ideas into account, then. Thanks!