this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2024
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[–] thesporkeffect@lemmy.world 231 points 4 months ago (4 children)

As always - if you're saying a word is comparable to the n-word, and you are able to use your word in public as a non-black person, it's not like the n-word

[–] Tower@lemm.ee 136 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] thesporkeffect@lemmy.world 20 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I couldn't remember where the quote came from, thank you, I tried to search for it but it was surprisingly difficult

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[–] TheEntity@lemmy.world 30 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Frankly that's something I do not understand. Why this single specific word? We have dozens of terrible offensive words. Why this specific one is considered so bad we cannot even talk about it directly, even when merely discussing it? I would think discussing it and not directing it at someone would be pretty reasonable. As with every single other word.

[–] JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca 30 points 4 months ago (19 children)

Is one of the other words associated with 200 years of chattel slavery?

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[–] Klear@sh.itjust.works 13 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Non-American here. I also didn't get this, thinking it's just puritanical bullshit. Some Americans seem obsessed with auto-censorship.

Anyway, I finally understood while watching Django Unchained. It's an extremely dehumanising word, meant to separate people (who have rights) from things which do not. It's a tool to be able to do this distinction and then do unspeakable evil to specific people because they don't count as people and so it's alright.

Now remember that slavery was ended* only relatively recently, segregation was a thing during the lifetimes of many people and this mindset of black people not being even human is still prevalent...

The word is meant to be always used in hostility and it's still being used like that today. That's why you want to steer clear of it.

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[–] Otkaz@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Wasn't really all that long ago when non-black people very commonly used that word in public and probably still so in certain communities. Having said that, obese is a medical term and I don't think it compares in anyway to the n-word.

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[–] TheV2@programming.dev 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

She, as an obese person herself, proposed that "obese" is equivalent to the n-word. She didn't censor her word the same way a black person doesn't have to censor the n-word. That's not a contradiction. It would be, if she wasn't obese.

Not that I care about the actual point, just wanted to talk about the logic. My bad, if my assumption that she is obese, is wrong.

[–] takeda@lemmy.world 111 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Obese is a medical term though and Dr ... PhD should know that.

[–] AWTM_James@sh.itjust.works 32 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Not necessarily, a PhD isn't a medical degree

[–] Wogi@lemmy.world 103 points 4 months ago

Ok I looked her up, I had to know.

She's a "fat-affirming" dietitian and her PhD is in "body positive medicine"

Her name is a blatant pun.

I don't think I'm reaching when I say not only is the account fake, this person doesn't exist, but that it was made to make fun of fat people.

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[–] AWTM_James@sh.itjust.works 24 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Also, I don't agree with the OP and think it's fucking dumb, but let's not forget that "retard" used to be a medical term as well

[–] Benjaben@lemmy.world 30 points 4 months ago (4 children)

That's the way these things have always gone and probably always will. Retarded, imbecile, idiot, these were all effectively clinical terms (or whatever best approximated clinical practice in their eras) - they didn't hold an insulting intention initially. People co-opted the terms to make fun of each other, as we do, and so professionals had to shift the clinical vocabulary so they weren't using commonly hurled insults when discussing patients. And that means new words people can use to make fun of each other, yay! Which of course they did, necessitating another rotation. Pretty hilarious if you ask me.

The most recent example in my own life - my wife is in her mid 30s, and is pregnant - some medical professionals call this a "geriatric pregnancy"! But because some folks are getting offended by that term, they're starting to use "advanced maternal age pregnancy". Bit of a mouthful, I think they'll get to keep that one.

Anyway. Carlin had a great bit on this phenomena, he's the one who pointed it out to me.

[–] usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca 22 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I've heard this called the "euphemism treadmill"

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[–] Guy_Fieris_Hair@lemmy.world 101 points 4 months ago (3 children)

It's quite literally the medical term.... i... I am an obese man, I am an obese man mostly of my own doing, their might be some psychological or socioeconomic reasons, but it's mostly the fact that food is good, exercise sucks, and impulse control. I wasn't born this way, I wasn't treated as nonhuman for something beyond my control, and obese is not used for the sole purpose of being derogatory.

Those two words are very, very different. Even if you are obese because of a thyroid, or injury, or whatever, a doctor can, and will call you obese in your medical reports. And if you can't handle that because you can't handle that slight uncomfortability, no wonder you are still obese.

[–] Liz@midwest.social 29 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I've been bedbound for five years. I have managed to stay a healthy weight by harassing my mother every time she buys unhealthy food. I ain't got that kind of self-control!

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[–] Lemminary@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Yeah, it's a sterile medical term that unfortunately takes on other meanings that people dislike. For example, I had a friend who went off the deep end and started claiming that obesity was made up by doctors and began trying to convince me to think likewise. It was kind of eerie to see this otherwise rational person fall for this type of denial over something that made them uncomfortable.

It doesn't help that some doctors were shitty to him about his weight (a fair and very real complaint) so he insisted it was a systematic problem within the medical establishment to oppress. I don't doubt it happens but it's a bit extreme to think it's solely used to that end and that it's not a handy label for managing weight and conducting research.

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[–] Etterra@lemmy.world 70 points 4 months ago (21 children)

Your medical status is not a racial slur.

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[–] Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc 48 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (20 children)

Despite popular believe, people doesn't and can't suddenly turn black as they pleased, while body weight is something you can at least control through dedication.

Until next time ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 18 points 4 months ago (6 children)

Also known as the "obesity is a personal moral failing" hypothesis.

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[–] Smokeydope@lemmy.world 45 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Just wanted to give some input as someone who dealt with lifelong obesity. As a fat person, some people just don't like to face the music or give themselves an honest look in the mirror. They don't want to call a spade a spade. Changing around words to describe things in more complex and softer language doesn't change the situation any, it just helps you psychologically cope.

The same with playing the blame game on outside factors like genetics and disability. Blaming everything you can but yourself and your own choices and failures and unaddressed mental insecurities. Thats not a fat person thing though, thats a general human being thing I tend to see in most groups of people one way or another. Its easier to convince yourself that you never had a choice, than it is to acknowledge the bad personal choices that lead to the consequences of your failures.

When you have fat rolls, and stretch marks litter your stomach, and you look more like a slug than a human being, and you need help wiping your own ass or a bigger toilet to support the weight, when you have to go shopping at specialty close stores (before amazon) just to find a size that fits, and you have no self control or desire to change your habits to stop the self destructive spiral as your stomach swells like a balloon, thats obesity. Regardless of arguments on BMI or CICO or genetics or whatever else, you've got a serious problem that needs addressing or it will destroy you slowly but surely.

"At least I'll die happy!" my type 2 diabetic father would always gleefully tell me as he shoved another tasty cake in his mouth before jabbing himself with an insulin pen. I don't think the junk food ever did make him happy though. He had mental health issues he never worked through in life. Instead, he relied on the temporary relief of junk food for pleasure, eventually having his addiction dominate and guide his existence.

As for me? I've gone through cycles of gaining and loosing 100 pounds. Right now im on a downward trend, lost 40 pounds this year. Hope to loose another 40 by this time next year. I gain the pounds during cycles of extreme depression, and loose them during cycles of great determination and self-agency. Our physical well-being is tied to our emotional and spiritual well-being. Self destructive cycles are much easier to enter when you feel nihilistic and out of control of your own life.

How do I loose weight? I don't eat. CICO, Simple as. I eat one meal a day, if that. Maybe snack on some dried preserved nuts and fruits once or twice.I drink water and lemon juice. I am a 6'1 man the calorie calculators tell me I should have around 2000 calories daily and cut down by 500 to loose a pound every once in awhile. Fuck that, I have maybe 500-1000 calories daily.

Im a little hungry a lot of the time, but I see the results of my conviction when I step on the scale expecting it to raise 5 lbs and seeing it drop 10 lbs. I look at myself in the mirror, examining my fading stretch marks and receding folds, I examine my skin tightening around the muscles and notice my face not quite as round as it once was. Thats the reward physical evidence of improvement. That my efforts aren't for nothing. It helps to remind myself of what im doing it for, and the price ive already had to pay for my insecurities and failures to control myself.

The physical act of loosing weight is hard and requires self-control over a very long time often multiple years. The mental act of introspection and reflecting on what lead to your obesity often requires analyzing the roots of your negative aspects while confronting those past traumas. That requires a mental strength and intelligence many people lack. At the end of the day, its easier and feels nicer to twist words and point fingers than fix your own problems.

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[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 44 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I forget what comedian said it, but if you're discussing two words and you cannot even say anything except the first letter of one of the words, that's the worse word.

[–] TheRealKuni@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago

John Mulaney

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[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 39 points 4 months ago (10 children)

It's a clinical term, and being obese is something that 90%+ of the time, you have a choice in.

Nobody picks their race. You cannot change your race.

What I'm saying is, no, those terms are not remotely the same.

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[–] Enkrod@feddit.org 37 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Fun Fact:

A northern German youth-slang word for "Bro" is "Digga", which is a friendly way to say "Fatty", from "Dicker - dick" (lit.: Fatty, fat/thick), but with the implication of being very dear friends, "dicke Freunde" (lit.: thick friends) just has the meaning "close friends" with no implication of being fat and "dick miteinander sein" (lit.: being thick together) is also an expression of closeness, not of weight.

Interestingly, Digga is being used in exactly the same way as black people in the US use the soft n-word with each other. "Mein Digga!" (lit: my thicky) is 1:1 analogous to "My n-word!". It's common for tourists to do a double take when they hear some very German and very white youths yell at one another "Ey Digga!" and many German rappers definitely use it as a stand in for the soft n-word, but It's use and etymology is rooted in the old dock workers culture of Hamburg and has absolutely nothing to do with the n-word.

[–] janNatan@lemmy.ml 11 points 4 months ago

I'm from the USA, and when I first heard "digga," I was certainly confused! It seems the youth say it even more than the generation that invented the phrase now.

Anyway, English speakers have an old phrase that is similar and might help some understand the usage of the word "thick" here. The phrase is "thick as thieves" - meaning thieves stick together.

[–] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 36 points 4 months ago (4 children)

all medical terms get turned into hateful insults--moron, idiot, imbecile, r*tarded which is approaching but will never achieve n-word status-- all used to be actual medical diagnoses. "obese" will go the same route and be replaced by something else, which will also eventually become derogatory and be replaced

funny how "shit", "piss", "fuck", "cunt", "cocksucker", "motherfucker", and "tits" are almost everyday words now

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 20 points 4 months ago (4 children)

funny how “shit”, “piss”, “fuck”, “cunt”, “cocksucker”, “motherfucker”, and “tits” are almost everyday words now

So much so that there's a song about it!

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[–] Persen@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

And now apparently autism. Why us? Autism doesn't cause you to be useless or stupid, most of us aren't recognised in public and a high percentage isn't even diagnosed, there is no reason to shit on us.

[–] lone_faerie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 4 months ago (2 children)

The reason is bigotry. If you really want to get into it, a big reason for the stigma against autism is the damage done by Autism Speaks.

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[–] 01011@monero.town 36 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Comparing a health condition to ethnicity is peak whiteness.

Nevermind the fact that melanin is a very practical and healthy trait.

[–] unreachable@lemmy.world 32 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] kamenlady@lemmy.world 25 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Her tongue also moves, omg

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[–] ealoe@ani.social 30 points 4 months ago (9 children)

Obese people acting like they can't control it is precisely why they're obese. It's vile to discriminate against someone for their height, race, sexual orientation, and other factors because they have no control or choice over those things. But if someone makes a bad choice that negatively affects their own health and others around them, it's acceptable to tell that person it's unsafe. Shaming them is ineffective, but just pretending being obese is normal and healthy isn't ok either. These folks need help.

Don't even start with me on thyroid disorders, those are a small fraction of people who are obese and even they do not defy basic laws of thermodynamics. Eat less than you burn, it's basic math. You may not be able to control the disorder but you are in control of how you respond to it.

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Oh my god. Get off the cross, we need the wood. Also you’re causing stress fractures.

[–] Jimbo@yiffit.net 11 points 4 months ago

Bigga please, I got my mind on much bigger things to say the least

My latest beat just sound like they was released by David East

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