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felipeforte@lemmygrad.ml

I want to start an organisation that certifies companies as worker controlled. Your thoughts? (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by HippoCookie897@lemmygrad.ml to c/comradeship@lemmygrad.ml

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I want create an organisation (or work for an already created one) that provides support to companies that wish to be worker-controlled and certify those companies such that people can choose these companies when making purchasing decisions.

The needs I can immediately see are clear organising agreement templates for the company guaranteeing worker control, worker ownership scheme policy templates (e.g., when a worker leaves), and worker voting policy templates. Perhaps after an organisation has implemented these controls, they may be listed as a certified worker-controlled establishment.

Background: I'm a anarcho-communist and when I need to consume, I would love to give power to worker-controlled institutions instead of capitalists. I have found few databases of worker-controlled businesses and none that were providing any goods/services I would actually need on a usual basis. I'm a corporate lawyer (fuck me) so I understand the governance required to distribute profits within a company. I don't see an organisation providing guidance to new businesses started by workers who want to keep their interests where they should be, returning profits to workers.

Do you have any thoughts on this, comrades? Worth the effort?

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[–] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Gonna be honest here, i dont think this does anything meaningful. Poor people ultimately only care about the price of the commodity, if X certified product costs more than Y non-certified product, people will buy Y product and X product will fail.

Inefficient small businesses making a profit thanks to western worker aristocracy that are able to overpay for their products is not useful for anything, its literally just virtue signalling.

If small business want to compete against big business, they have to become more efficient at production, otherwise they are charity.

[–] HippoCookie897@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

You are of the opinion that a worker-controlled business (I'm not only talking about small business btw) = higher prices and inefficient production? If so, why is that?

Also, money in the hands of workers instead of capitalists = only virtue signalling? I'm not understanding this, sorry. Please explain?

[–] SadArtemis@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 month ago

If so, why is that?

In the west, this is because the west has genuinely priced its working classes out of existence. One can call it "greedflation" (and sure, it primarily is), but it also is a symptom of an economic system which draws much of the wealth and labor of the globe into these overpriced imperial cores, devaluing and exploiting on an even greater level the lives of those elsewhere; a symptom of the broader picture of these imperial cores exporting their debt across the world and artificially maintaining their own currencies' value increasingly through threats and violence more than anything else; and of course, also a symptom of the neoliberal modern system wherein the former monopolies of production (mercantilism) have considerably shifted outside of the imperial cores, and what remains within is the typical "American-style" or late stage capitalism- bottom-line, shareholder-dominated, rentier capitalism, a sort of "slash and burn/disaster capitalism" that the classical liberals were explicitly against (but which Marxist analysis explains).

Also, money in the hands of workers instead of capitalists = only virtue signalling?

As for that, while I'd not quite call it "virtue signalling" (it's little different, but the intent is genuine), the simple fact is that it won't change the system, hell, it won't even band-aid the system. And so long as all the levers of the imperialist world system or even domestic finance remain under capital's control, it is- less effective even, than trying to swim up a waterfall.

I'm not saying that there can't be some tiny good done, for some individual lives. Just like any (genuine) charity or outreach that much is true. But end of the day it all can be undone (and will constantly be stuck trying to swim up the waterfall- predictably, at the bottom of the waterfall), when the system is utterly and overwhelmingly in the hands of the capitalists. Whether it be through taxation, inflation, all the countless forms of rent and interest charged within capitalist society, through their dominance over the political processes (regulatory capture, corporate welfare, etc- the list goes on) you will not even make a dent within the system this way.

It's not a bad thing to do. But it's just charity, it does not fix the problem.

[–] JoeDaRedTrooperYT@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 1 month ago

Not a bad idea imo

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

How are you going to finance this venture? Who is going to fund this?

[–] Barx@hexbear.net 2 points 1 month ago

It sounds useful, though don't forget that you're basically doing free marketing for private businesses! This is very similar to "union made" marketing. It will also be a lot of work, as you will either need to fight hard to research a critical mass of worker-controlled businesses and/or once you do have a critical number you will have to critique them. The legal aspect is just one part! What do you do about co-ops that are really just run by one or two jerks despite what is on paper?

These aren't reasons not to do it, just some ways to take a critical lens to aspects of the idea so that you can prepare for the effort and make it better.

In my opinion, the key things to focus on are who is going to do this with you, how will it be sustainable if you eventually leave the project, and are there any angles by which to turn this into more than a consumer tool.

For example, co-ops are unfortunately rare, so this would not be very useful for someone wanting to see all the new co-ops to see in the town they live in. There are probably 2-3 tops. Checking the site even weekly would be fruitless for them 9 times out of 10. So really, this would only be for people to check rarely, like when visiting a new town, or because they haven't thought about this before. If you want people to hear about new co-ops, you would want a mailing list of some kind.

So, my logic is that this would make the most sense as part of a wider effort. Maybe part of a local lefty paper rather than a totally separate thing. Local papers already try to do this with "traditional" businesses, particularly restaurants, curating databases and announcements that pepper their issues. Maybe it ties into a specific organizing druve to get more co-ops to form. When businesses may close, some cities have a tradition of offering the business for sale to the workers. Can your site help with that? If so, the ways it can help may assist you with figuring out where this project really lives and how it could have impact and engagement. IMO the ideal outcome is less about consumer choices and more about using the impression of a consumer choice platform to do organizing.