I really don't get why so many people think the migration is their biggest problem instead of economy and especially demography in Germany. The industry is stuck in the 20th century, that's the main problem which needs to be addressed, not if there are some migrants here and there.
this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2024
249 points (98.4% liked)
World News
39367 readers
2301 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
I really don’t get why so many people think the migration is their biggest problem
Propaganda.
And scapegoating
Yup, that's one flavour of propaganda. Others include racism and xenophobia, all different kinds of fear mongering from stealing jobs to raping "your" women, flat out lies like people eating pets, nationalism, exceptionalism (sadly not only an American problem), and so on. It is everywhere in pretty much all the media we consume consciously and un/subconsciously, even the most left leaning people can't completely avoid it, we just work harder at being aware of it and (in general, should) do our best to combat it in our own minds and the minds of others.
It's always easier to blame others then think about how to improve yourselves.
Certainly when areas of improvement are controlled by rich people who in general like to contribute being rich.
Which is especially sad in Germany, because we ought to have learnt from the mistakes of the past and mastered the art of improving ourselves. The stereotype of a German being overly critical was true for exactly that reason. Apparently the Generation that should have learned it from first hand simply forgot.
Because people want simple solutions to extremely complex issues.
Plus misinformation. I swear people were better informed when they were less informed and discussing politics over the coffee table with their peers.
How do you figure that? Germany in particular has quite the history of blaming the wrong group of people for its problems.
Migration is not a problem itself. It is uncontrolled migration that is. It is normal when you have a lot of people coming in your country that don't get papers so they can't find normal job, appartment etc that they will turn to criminality to survive. IMO I think it is inhuman to let people in these situations. I am far more for more border control and easily giving papers to people who want to come to the country than letting borders open and ignoring them and letting them rot in the street.
That sounds like an argument for a robust social safety net, not an argument against immigration.
Also an argument against work restrictions.
It’s not like there isn’t anything that needs doing.
Unfortunately even the safest nets will tear if overloaded
[citation needed]
you either willfully or unknowingly spout far-right conspiracy theory between the lines.
migration is not only normal, but essential to the survival of the planet and each country/region. it's a net positive. we've gone so far out of our way to make it a "we" vs "them", when there's no "we" at all. there's just rich people protecting their interests, trying (and suceeding) to divide the masses
Most "far right" people are exactly the kind that made the comment you reply to. I have a "friend" that became exactly like this.
So telling that I am 100% behind legalizing people and let them live and work normally is being far right ?
You guys are so focused in your bi party that people being able to not see in black and white are always your political ennemy.
My point is I am 100% for giving more visa and in an easier way to people so they can live their lives in the system like everyone. I have friends that have no papers and have been living 5 years already and won't have anything for at least five more years. This is not acceptable. They are working here (not officially of course since no visa) and paying tax.
But also we can't welcome everyone too because the system couldn't handle it. The state need to have a way to reduce and also increase when needed.
But right now here, you have some countries that will have access to visa in an instant but others that will do all the work we don't want to do and have to wait sometimes 10 years to have access to papers.
Explain to me what is far right conspiracy in my point.
but also we can't welcome everyone too because the system couldn't handle it
That's the far-right talking point strawman. Somehow "the system" can handle billionaires not paying taxes, it can handle big corporations getting bailouts, it can handle giving billions to war efforts. But it can't "handle" people moving? Like they have always done? And maybe we don't need a system that "can't handle" that. I can't handle this system.
Yes totally agree with you if the rich and ultra rich payed tax in our country we could without a doubt handle this amount of people.
But the problem is that they aren't. They aren't because government (at least here in France) give them many tax gift etc but even without that you can't tax a starbuck that is reporting only deficit because all their profit goes into buying product to starbuck netherlands. We live in a globalize system where anyone with enought money can evade tax legally.
In a world where politicians would do this job for career but for the good of the people I would think taxing them would be possible. But the politicians won't attack their biggest supports.
With that assumption all the remaining thing to do is to control more the incoming of people BUT give a lot more social to the one coming in the country.
And to be clear, I would like to live in a world where we could share the wealth in a better way but when you look at where the world is going I can't force my self to not believe in it.
That's why support for anti immigration parties is so concentrated in regions with few immigrants
And why do you think it's like that?
Bigotry of small-minded people who live in communities that need more diversity.
This is definitely not the case in Sweden. During their last election it was the complete opposite.
They're not being ignored tho, they're just not allowed to work
Yes they are ignored, when you refuse to give a visa to someone that has been living for years in your country, paying tax and doing the work no one want to do, you are in fact ignoring them. When you don't have paper where I am from you can't get a real job, you can't rent a normal flat with a contract. You have to live without guaranties like knowing you will work tomorrow or if you are going to sleep in your appartment.
The thing is, they can't work in Germany because they don't get the permit. They're living here for months or years without being allowed to work while the German citizens complain about how they don't want to work. It really sucks. The reason I said they're not being ignored is that I'm pretty sure it's like that on purpose. Left wing parties are heavily losing votes while right wing parties can use this to support their narrative of lazy immigrants that only come to Germany to abuse our social system.
Found one.
One ?
Because none of the big party wants to acknowledge that, random example, abolishing the wealth tax was a bad idea. Not even the bloody SPD: They're not addressing social issues, aren't addressing people's fears for the future, aren't addressing the lack of perspectives, which leaves room for demagogues. Because doing that would mean that they need to make actual changes to the system, and why would the SPD implement SocDem policies there's a reason they're known as the traitor party.
It's, in short, a lack of balls in the SPD's political base to get rid of the Seeheimer circle. Get rid of that New Labour nonsense. Maybe, you know, when Berlin (as in the city state) votes to expropriate large landlords you take that as a sign that you fucked up and change course, instead of trying your best to not have to implement the expropriation. "But won't someone think about market confidence!" MFers did it help market confidence when the east went full-on AfD. Get a grip.
Exactly. What's more, demographic change alone has led to an urgent need for workers from abroad in Germany. This applies to low-skilled as well as highly skilled workers - for example in crafts, catering, healthcare, nursing, IT or engineering, just to name a few sectors. What the right-wing parties and their supporters are propagating is not only inhumane and amoral, it is also economically disastrous. It is these unscrupulous opportunists who are ruining the country with their racist hate; not the migrants - quite the opposite.
I was asking myself the same thing but formulated as "are people getting more stupid?". With the right rising and the most stupid shit like chemtrail conspiracies.
The answer seems to be a disinformation campaign.
We are at war, they try to divide us and it is working.
Forgieners are the easiest to blame for your problems. But they often are the exact opposite of them.
They are essential to the survival of the country - we neither have the brith rate, nor the capacity to sustain anything without them. As a country highly dependent on exports, immigration has always been one of the key factors. Be it the Turkish in the 60s and 70s, or anyone else. Being German has basically nothing to do with being born here
If you think thats bad, its gonna get worse. One of the biggest biggest demographics that voted for them were young people now imagine how it will be when these young people grow up
Europe is going to be a shitshow in the coming decades no matter what direction voters are trending. We're all talking about this as if it's primarily a political issue and it just isn't. Climate change is already fucking our shit up and that's going to get exponentially worse. Desperate people don't care about imaginary lines on a map.
We can't even deal with a comparatively small amount of migrants without backsliding into the same kind of fascism that our grandparents had to invent nuclear bombs to subdue 80 years ago. There's no way we're going to deal with what's coming in a rational way.
Hey, the nuclear bombs were to stunt on fools, fascism got beat just fine by the united industrial strength of social democracy(ish), communism(ish), and the British Empire. And all three of those things are doing just fine in 2024, right?
"Fascism got beat just fine" is a fun way of saying West front was exceptionally lucky, and the Eastern successfully smothered the fscists with meat
and the Eastern successfully smothered the fscists with meat
Tbf, that was Chiang Kai-Shek's strategy against Japan as well.
And yet our Government shies away from banning this fascist pos Party. Spineless cunts.
A decade long austerity have underfunded basic services, thereby making migrants and locals compete. Climate change will only exacerbate the ongoing tensions.
Sweden and like New York are doing great 👍 So Germany, do Better.
Problem with migration, that often people get placed in the same area and won't really assimilate.
Not sure what you mean, but Sweden have soured on immigration. The far-right Sweden Democrat is in a coalition government with the centre right as we speak.
sarcasm
Oh okay, I wasn't able to tell.
Out of curiosity, is New York also experiencing anti-immigration?
There is definitely a push for it. I recommend watching Cash Jordan on YouTube https://youtu.be/W8OPvPZF6zc good inside look and discussion.
view more: next ›