The difference is the Nazis were... Disgustingly, sociopathically orderly about it all.
But on a toll of human suffering yeah, yep. Genocide's a genocide.
this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2024
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There's also the matter of scale. Genocide may be genocide, but 11,000,000 > 40,000. Still, 40,000 deaths (that we know of) in Gaza is disgusting and we shouldn't tolerate letting that number grow.
Wasn't 40,000 an underestimated amount from like 1+ month ago? Also it was about a very short timeframe, not the whole genocide Palestinians have been subjected to for decades
What is the 40,000 in terms of percentage? I think that is an important bit of context that raw numbers don't tell (I don't know enough about the situation to know which population centre to be looking at population data for)
11,000,000 / 40,000 = 275
The 4 years of the Holocaust were 275x more deadly than what Israel has done to Palestinians in the past year. The Genocide in Gaza is 0.36% of a Holocaust.
If you count only the Jews killed in the Holocaust, it's 6,000,000 / 40,000 = 150, or 0.67%.
I don't think "genocide is genocide" is a good philosophy. Comparing two tragedies where one tragedy had literally hundreds of times more death than the other requires one to acknowledge that one event was worse than the other, even if both events are intolerably evil.
Okay so over 1 year on average, 68.5x or 37.5x more deadly.
Now what is the population size and proportion difference?
If it's in the 37-68x range that's a relative match.
Edit: my numbers are coming out to WWII was ~1.20x deadlier when we account for total population deltas.
(About 63% Jewish population displacement year over year in WWII vs ~53% Palestinian displacement in the last year)
I may have made errors, but I think this is fairly accurate.
There were like 2.3 million people living in Gaza and at best guess 42k have been killed. That's a best guess and most estimates say at least.
Initially, Germany had around 500k Jewish people. Around 300k of those people were able to flee, although many not far enough. Of the remaining 200k, about 25% were killed in concentration camps or through some other horror.
As the Nazis gathered more territory, they began the systematic, machine-like murder of European Jews. As a direct example, Poland had over 3 million Jewish people, 90% of them were killed in the Holocaust in concentration camps.
I don't think we really need to compare genocides to say this is a genocide, especially not to the Holocaust.
I want to make clear here that my response is 100% neutral
Genuinely curious about percentage of total population for these numbers here. I mean, it's also a weird and tough thing too compare, it's not as though those targeted in Germany in World war II had borders of their own. I'm still curious, though.
The Nazis didn't have the support of the world's major economic powers, the media, and the majority of those on the so-called left.
In short, the world gave a fuck that the Nazis did it.
I don't know about that. Before the war began, there were plenty of nations happy to look the other way as the Nazis rounded people up in favor of trade. And a lot of the media sympathized with fascists in the 1930s. Some media even inspired the Nazis. Henry Ford serializing the Protocols of the Elders of Zion in his newspapers ones one of the reasons that made him someone Hitler idolized. He saw Ford as someone who successfully controlled both industry and the media. Hitler actually kept a picture of Ford on his desk.
That's all very true.
I said "...that the Nazis did it", not "...when the Nazis did it" for that very reason.
They say those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it. I guess those that do are too. In a few years when Gaza has been wiped off the map, it's people killed or displaced, I expect everyone will suddenly find a mass agreement that it was terrible and should never happen again.
Trouble with most progressives is it's always that last war that was unjust, never the current one.
I wonder who Netanyahu has a picture of...
‘What is the difference between what Israel is doing and the Nazi gas chambers?’
Efficiency?
Depends on how you measure efficiency. It’s very efficient to put people in a gas chamber if your success metric is amount of people killed.
For Israelis it seems that the success metric is a combination of amount of people killed and amount of suffering caused in the process. Unfortunately they’re doing a very good job at killing people while making the life of those not killed yet a living hell.
But as someone else said, genocide is genocide.
When someone else is providing the means, efficiency is less of a concern.
Lots of talking by PM’s, other politicians and leaders yet almost zero to none actions taken against Israel.
A lot of international laws been violated (if not all?) and nothing changed. Why do these laws exist if one state can just do whatever they want and murder human beings as if it is a videogame?
We don't need Holocaust analogies, they only obscure reality and evoke mixed emotions. The blur things.
Israeli apartheid and genocide are their own unique kind of human horror. We don't need postmodernism here. Call it for what it actually is.
It helps draw a parallel. People have seen WW2 movies and are taught about the horrors of the Holocaust.
Evoking this emotion will make non involved people empathize with what is happening in Palestine.
And when the horrors of Israeli genocide don't align perfectly with the ones of Nazi genocide, you end up having to have the least productive discussion in the world. Or you get the discussion of witch one is worse in the horror Olympics. Not to mention you rhetorically open up the space for concern trolls and spurious antisemitism attacks. It really is counterproductive.
Most people have only received education regarding the holocaust.
A more apt comparison would be the brutal French colonization of Algeria but that does not speak to people's imagination.
Vietnam is also a great comparison but people are still being thanked for their service in 'nam so you can imagine they are not fully up to date.
A consistent theme in all of those stories is one culture which proclaims itself as superior trying to wipe out a culture they perceive to be inferior.
I don't understand why you need to compare with something else. The horrors speak for themselves. Compare with normalcy if you have to.