this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2023
377 points (100.0% liked)

Gaming

30540 readers
156 users here now

From video gaming to card games and stuff in between, if it's gaming you can probably discuss it here!

Please Note: Gaming memes are permitted to be posted on Meme Mondays, but will otherwise be removed in an effort to allow other discussions to take place.

See also Gaming's sister community Tabletop Gaming.


This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Unity: We have to charge for every install because we only see totals. Also Unity: We can tell which install is which, so you won't be overcharged.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Mereo@lemmy.ca 153 points 1 year ago (6 children)

The whole thing seems rushed because the CEO of Unity, John Riccitiello, was the leading advocate of microtransactions when he was at EA, and now he is instilling the same culture at Unity.

How will they differentiate between pirated copies and legitimate copies? How will they distinguish first-time installs from repeat installs? Can we trust their algorithm? It just doesn't seem possible.

[–] nothingcorporate@lemmy.today 107 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Unity: Everyone really seems to hate EA

Also Unity: Let's hire the CEO of EA

🀦

[–] Ertebolle@kbin.social 84 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It may have been more like:

Unity: "We love money and hate our customers, who can we hire to realize that vision?"

EA CEO: "Finally, a job that understands me"

[–] ech@lemm.ee 47 points 1 year ago

Unity: ~~Everyone really seems to hate EA~~EA sure is making a lot of money

Also Unity: Let's hire the CEO of EA

🀦

Ftfy

[–] peter@feddit.uk 68 points 1 year ago

If there was a foolproof way of checking for a pirated copy they wouldn't be making a game engine they'd be making DRM

[–] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] echodot@feddit.uk 26 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not sure why they hired him.

"Hey we're looking for a new captain, why don't we go for the guy who repeatedly sails into rocks? He'll be good."

[–] Obi@sopuli.xyz 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Unfortunately a story as old as Wall Street. CEOs designed and hired to kill companies are a thing.

[–] iso@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Meaning that this is on purpose? If so, who would profit from this? (besides the incompetent CEO themselves)

[–] omeara4pheonix@lemmy.zip 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Short sellers, and the corporation that absorbs them at bargain prices.

[–] otter@lemmy.ca 26 points 1 year ago

Key bit feels like "can we trust their algorithm"

It's hard to enforce a "just trust me, this is what you owe"

[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 20 points 1 year ago (5 children)

You can usually tell a unique machine apart from another via MAC address, but even that has issues, and that's giving Unity the benefit of the doubt when they haven't earned it.

[–] Silvus@kbin.social 36 points 1 year ago

If I buy a new computer, they shouldn't be charged again because I installed on the new machine.

his is ignoring the "we don't collect personal data" but "we will definitely know if you install it once or multiple times "we have ways""

[–] BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 32 points 1 year ago (2 children)

MAC addresses are per network Interface, my computer has three technically and uses two of them on a regular basis.

A terrible tracking method.

[–] Dyf_Tfh@lemmy.sdf.org 19 points 1 year ago

And nowadays you have randomized MAC addresses on IPV6.

[–] lukas@lemmy.haigner.me 7 points 1 year ago

Vendors also re-use MAC addresses to cheap out on costs.

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

MAC addresses are absolutely trivial to spoof, to the point that it's just a drop-down option on linux lmao, so yeah good luck with that one

[–] driving_crooner 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Are MAC address even shared ocer IP? as I understand MAC is for routers and other equipment to connect themselves, what MAC address are they going to receive? The one of the PC or the one of my router?

[–] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The game could read the Mac address and send it. It would probably violate GDPR because it's not required for the game to perform its function, but it's technically trivial.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] wim@lemmy.sdf.org 14 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Except iOS will randomize its mac adress at each boot / after a while to prevent users being tracked by rogue WiFi networks, which is actually a thing being used to track consumers in commercial spaces etc. So that wouldn't work.

[–] maynarkh@feddit.nl 5 points 1 year ago

So did Windows at one point at least.

[–] Lojcs@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

I don't think it randomizes its actual mac address, it just gives a different one to different wifis

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] echodot@feddit.uk 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There is still a lot of questions. How many components can I change and it still be the same computer and not a new computer? If I replace one component every two months after about a year I'll have a new computer I've kind of ship of Theseused may way to a new rig. At what point would I have to buy a new licence?

If I don't ever have to buy a new licence in that scenario why do I have to buy a new licence if I buy a new computer outright, it's functionally the same difference.

[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

You're asking all the same questions we asked 15 years ago, when DRM started limiting installs on games like BioShock.

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The MAC address is the address of the network card, which can be either built into the motherboard, or on a replaceable card... so if that was the only thing they tracked, you could replace everything except that... unless you have a network card with an editable MAC (they don't need to be unique worldwide, only on the network they directly connect to).

Microsoft seems to use a slightly different system, where they'd generate a sort of hash for all the components, then allow a limited number of changes per year, so you can change the while computer a limited number of times a year.... but they call home all the time.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Platform27@lemmy.ml 54 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Lying about collecting that data, because they do (and I block it). Not lying, but backtracking on everything else.

[–] nothingcorporate@lemmy.today 37 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're right, they're absolutely collecting data, but saying they can't differentiate between activations and then saying "oh yeah, actually, we can when it comes to (piracy/bundles/charity/etc.)" less than 24 hours later tells me that not only do they not care about game devs, but they think we're stupid too.

[–] dfyx@lemmy.helios42.de 12 points 1 year ago

It also tells me that this is the first time their internal devs have heard about these plans. This is the C-levelβ€˜s wet dream, not something they have actually implemented yet.

But hey, it can’t be that hard, can it? The code monkeys should be able to get it to work in three months, right?

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] dom@lemmy.ca 44 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Ok so if they are now only charging for the first install, why aren't they just charging an extra fee per sale? Wouldn't that accomplish effectively the same thing? (And actually work out in unity favour since not everyone who buys a game downloads it)

[–] Veraxus@kbin.social 27 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Because they realize that a huge number of their customers are small indies, and they want to be able to squeeze them - the majority of their customer base - not just the minority of big companies (who are also the most likely to fight back legally).

Just look at how their scheme squeezes smaller, poorer developers way more than big ones. If Unity went by points like, say Epic does with Unreal, they could shake down the big developers… but wouldn’t get much out of the indies.

[–] Damage@feddit.it 12 points 1 year ago

Which is the opposite of what smart companies like Adobe do. You facilitate the small players in hope that they grow big and keep using your products at a larger scale.

[–] skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

[This comment has been deleted by an automated system]

[–] dudewitbow@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It work for paid games, youd have to apply it to microtransaction level if by f2p game, which is the real target for the change.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] recycledbits@discuss.tchncs.de 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Was Unity lying yesterday or are they lying today?

Yes and yes. It's not an either-or situation.

Good point, they can't both be true...but they CAN both be false. I'm hiring you as my lawyer.

[–] echodot@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Well it kind of is. Either they can differentiate between a new install and a repeat install, or they can't.

[–] recycledbits@discuss.tchncs.de 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's also possible that they can't track new installs either.

FAQ:

How is Unity collecting the number of installs?

We leverage our own proprietary data model and will provide estimates of the number of times the runtime is distributed for a given project – this estimate will cover an invoice for all platforms.

Which is some kind of weird nebulous BS.

They're not saying their engine phones home and/or collects data from end-user devices. With the associated data protection nightmares.

[–] luciole@beehaw.org 15 points 1 year ago

Oof. This is corporate lingo for "we'll pull a number out of our ass and charge the dev accordingly". "Proprietary data model" makes it clear they intend to remain conveniently (for them) opaque about it.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] ellabella@beehaw.org 25 points 1 year ago

The fact that they went forward with this decision means they're not so wise at lying. It sounds more like last-minute damage control, but I doubt this will stop their greed. What I'm wondering now is how will the Chinese game companies react? Everybody get your popcorns ready.

[–] webghost0101@sopuli.xyz 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So does this mean every single unity game will have unity online drm now? Or how else will they be able to tell? Seem so much more convenient to take a cut from sales instead

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] crossmr@kbin.social 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is wizards of the cost all over again. Unity learned nothing from them.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Wirrvogel@feddit.de 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sounds trustworthy to me! ~/s~

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Ecksell@lemmy.one 14 points 1 year ago

Relevant username is relevant

[–] lloram239@feddit.de 10 points 1 year ago

Has anybody send Unity a GDPR request? I'd be curious what data they collect to make install tracking possible.

[–] SnowBunting@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So what is a better game engine to use now?

[–] Nioxic@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 1 year ago

Godot is FOSS.

Unreal is decent too i guess but.. not free. (Though iirc its free if you publish your game on epic)

[–] archchan@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago
load more comments
view more: next β€Ί