this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2024
68 points (90.5% liked)
Linux
48635 readers
1241 users here now
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
Rules
- Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
- No misinformation
- No NSFW content
- No hate speech, bigotry, etc
Related Communities
Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
the ubuntu machines at work are nearly unusable bc snaps don't play well with our intranet setup and it just so happens that ubuntu thought it would be a brilliant idea to make firefox, the default browser, a snap
slack is also a snap so the support team had to install it by hand so that we don't get locked out of work meetings while at the office
this sucks so much bc ubuntu is basically the first distro that comes to mind when ppl think "linux", so it shouldn't make us deal with this kind of bullshit. i wish they went back to the days where ubuntu was just a boring repackaged debian
this is pretty much my one problem with ubuntu, and it taints the entire experience tbh. its first time in years i dont look forward to updating because ill have to yank out snaps and figure out how to de-migrate my stuff back to flatpak.
Seriously, what's with that tunnel vision on snaps?
Best case scenario: sunk cost fallacy
Worst case scenario: there's a lot of shit you can do when you control a closed source app store, and canonical has a history of doing sketchy shit like selling user data to Amazon
They are backtracking and allowing deb out of the box again
Too late, back to Debian proper.
They should of just backed down and listened to community feedback after the first failure. Instead they pissed everyone off.
Snnnnap.
That's a no.
Lol I tried to install it on a test machine (not a WM) and I couldn't do it cuz of some snap failure. Though the latest Canonical's attempts to add a permission control system for snaps are very interesting to me. Ik Flatseal and KDE's implementation exist but having a really well made and integrated one can be a big deal for many users. If only it was for Flatpak...
Snaps have had a permission system for at least 5 years now.
Small is inherently slow though. That's just due to the framework, so any extra work they put into securing it better is just going to make it slower. Flatpak works great, on the other hand.
Been using ubuntu for almost 15 years. My annoyance with snap made me just switch to bazzite (gaming focused fedora atomic ). Takes a little getting used to since its immutable but im liking it alot more so far.
Doesn't actually seem like a bad release at all.
But I'm pretty married to Flatpaks at this point so no thanks, I'm good.
E: not sure who I've hurt the feelings of, Snap fans (are they out there?) or Flatpak haters. Either way, nobody important.
i would let this one cook for a bit longer. the upgrade went fine but the OS has been peculiar (GPU and performance issues, resume from stand by), no actual crashes though
Flatpak works on Ubuntu...
And Snaps work outside of Ubuntu...
My point is, Ubuntu goes out of their way to make installing stuff as anything other than a Snap a hindrance.
Their new storefront, which was originally a community creation that allowed for the installation of debs and snaps, initially had deb support ripped out of it when Ubuntu started using it. Only after backlash did they reluctantly add it back. You certainly can't install Flatpaks through it (unless someone has a fork).
Why would I use a system that so aggressively pushes a packaging format I don't want to use and suppresses ones that I do?
I guess it matters if you use GUI tools to install things. I almost never do so I hadn't even noticed.
Even using apt to install things has lead to some things actually being installed as Snaps, unfortunately.
Sure - but I guess I just don't care? I don't understand the snap hate. They work fine. Better than flatpaks even. I install some things from flatpak (desktop GUI only stuff) and some things from apt/snaps.
The Snap "hate" makes perfect sense. It performs worse, each app is mounted as it's own fs which clutters my file manager, they cause all kinds of issues (e.g with Steam), the sandboxing only works on one distro, there's a proprietary element to them, they're controlled by one organisation that's somewhat questionable, and they undermine the actual packaging standard that seemingly everybody else has adopted.
It's perfectly reasonable not to want them, and it's very reasonable not to want them forcibly installed without consent when you're trying to install something else.
If you like them, fair enough. But I've explained why I don't, and you liking them does not invalidate all the people that don't like them.
I love how people say "forcibly installed" like it's rape or something... You haven't been violated, you've been, at worst, mildly inconvenienced.
I can understand people not preferring them. But the whole "forced on me" victim stuff is over the top.
I didn't say it was tantamount to rape. Don't try to make out that I'm saying anything like that. You know I'm not. Stop the absurdity.
Ubuntu would forcibly install the snap version of programs even when you specifically use the terminal to install the deb.
If you want your PC to do that then again, whatever, I genuinely don't care. If your workflow and distro works for you then I'm happy for you. You have your PC however you want it. If your workflow works best with Canonical second-guessing you, then continue with it. Use what works for you.
I just like my PC doing what I tell it to do, not what I specifically told it not to do.
It is insanity that you're trying to make my criticism of that sound like I'm saying what Canonical is doing is the equivalent or rape. Have a word with yourself.
I didn’t say it was tantamount to rape. Don’t try to make out that I’m saying anything like that. You know I’m not. Stop the absurdity.
sigh I love a good old internet "I didn't say that - yes you did - no I said - you really meant though" bullshit argument...
I said "like it's rape or something" - I didn't say you're saying it's "tantamount to rape". Settle down. I'm just talking about the language people use like they're being personally violated by snaps.
Now show me on the doll where snap touched you...
I said "like it's rape or something" - I didn't say you're saying it's "tantamount to rape"
ESL or just pretending like you don't know those are the same thing?
I'm just talking about the language people use like they're being personally violated by snaps.
Theyre literally just using the words to describe what is happening, why are you being weird about it?
Getting hardcore incel vibes from your attitude, might wanna work on that
I love the arrogance of telling somebody what they mean even though that person clearly indicates it's not what they mean. Like you know better what's in my mind.
You've descended into "I just need to be right" now. No point discussing anything.
I love the arrogance of telling somebody what they mean
You used words that mean something. If your half baked mind has invented new meanings for the word that's on you, not me
You've descended into "I just need to be right" now
I never wasn't
No point discussing anything.
You'd have to be coherent for that first
You literally said "like it's rape"
Like: similar to; the same as
Tantamount: being almost the same as something, usually something bad.
So yes, you were definitely putting words in my mouth that snaps installing when the user goes to install a .deb is tantamount to raping someone.
Clearly an attempt at discrediting my completely reasonable complaint with one of the most absurd false equivalences I've ever heard in my life.
Even still, I’m back on Ubuntu LTS for my daily driver for stability sake but I do so miss yay.
24.10 is the first release I've had with major problems
It's Kubuntu for me, not Ubuntu, but yay shouldn't matter
Upgrade from 24.04 to 24.10 failed spectacularly, first upgrade failure in like a decade or so?
So I reinstalled, added crypttab and fstab devices, reboot, then that failed. For some reason, crypttab isn't working right.
In any case, I boot into an emergency she'll because of that, but systemd (frack systemd, just like snap) complains about /usr/sbin not being a symlink, saying its critical and why it can't boot
Eh, okay? I merge it with /usr/bin, symlink it, systemd happy. Things still seemed to work, so yay! Well, crypttab still isn't but we'll figure it out, let's get to work first!
Cue a few days later, most has been setup, and I want to install docker. Docker installation failed because a dependency failed to find a file. I can't even remember the last time that happened. I can't cancel the install either, so it's stuck and I can't install anything else.
After a day I figure out how to cancel the install completely by cancelling literally docker and every dependency, great.
Work a long time trying to investigate what's wrong, now I find other packages failing as well. Loads of searches later I figure out that apt hates /use/sbin is a symlink. Frack me for listening to systemd
Try to split it again, copying contents of bin to sbin, nope. Try to put backup directories back, nope.
Reinstall, and prep for attempt #3
Install again, all seems okay, but when adding crypttab and fstab devices, won't boot again.
This release sucks
How are you trying to install docker? I wouldn't be surprised if the docker ppa was unsupported for 24.10.
i would let this one cook for a bit longer. the upgrade went fine but the OS has been peculiar (GPU and performance issues, resume from stand by), no actual crashes though. i'm on gnome
Every single ununtu release since Warty has been trouble. Ubuntu breaks. Does wetid things. Makes weird choices. Upgrades often fail.
I am surprised it took you this long to run into issues.
I literally just installed it on a spare laptop. I was going to install the lts, but saw a new release and couldn't resist. Things seem pretty good so far.