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submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by IverCoder@lemmy.world to c/youshouldknow@lemmy.world

Why YSK: Choosing an instance with defederation policies you're most comfortable with is important to make your Fediverse experience smooth in the long run.

Here is a chart showing the defederation count of each instance.

Instance Defederated with how many other instances
beehaw.org 405
feddit.de 101
lemmy.world 63
lemmy.ml 44
sh.itjust.works 4
exploding-heads.com 3

You can get it by going to the instance's instance list and scrolling/Ctrl+Fing down to "Blocked Instances". To find the instance list, go to https://your-instance.url/instances, for example, https://lemmy.world/instances

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[-] gk99@lemmy.world 71 points 1 year ago

This is kinda why I wish we had user-level instance blocking, there aren't any popular instances that match my preferred blocklist and I don't want to have to go out and request federation for everything I want to see. For example, the top sites I don't want to see are lemmy.ml, lemmygrad, and exploding-heads, and while beehaw gets all three, they also block instances I don't find problematic like lemmy.world.

So I ended up on lemmy.world and manually block all the stuff I don't want to see, but it'd be loads easier if I could just ask not to be shown content from instances I want to avoid.

[-] blaise@champserver.net 14 points 1 year ago

Kbin allows user-level instance blocking, so that functionality should be feasible to implement in lemmy eventually.

[-] techgearwhips@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Couldn't this be accomplished by deploying your own personal instance? Or am I missing something.

[-] IverCoder@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

You're right, however it might not be that simple especially when considering costs.

[-] techgearwhips@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Pretty cheap if your personal server is just for you... And even if you want to add a few friends & family. I plan on starting my own instance next month.

[-] IverCoder@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

In my country those prices I looked up were far from cheap 🙃 but soon I hope I do get the money to have my own server

If you're on android, connect has the ability to filter whole instances.

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 year ago

Beehaw federates with lemmy.ml

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[-] incognito_tuna@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago
[-] Rednax@lemmy.world 69 points 1 year ago

When they defederated from lemmy.world, the stated reason was the open registration policy. Their registration process is handled manually. I suspect that they operate a much tighter ship when it comes to moderation. This has it perks and problems.

[-] rich8n@lemmy.world 59 points 1 year ago

I tried to sign up to check it out, but apparently the essay I had to write pledging my undying commitment to a community I had not even experienced yet was insufficient to be accepted. Their loss.

[-] derpysmilingcat@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Mine was the same. I am generally a nice person, I just want a nice place to comment to people, talk about gaming, cars/motorcycles, animals and technology but I wasn't good enough somehow. I literally wrote a paragraph. No idea what I had to say to get in.

I'm just a derpysmilingcat, I'm not evil lol

[-] flop@lemmy.fmhy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

It could be their goal is not to be folks primary casual browsing instance, so just being someone that is stopping in to hang out isn't quite what they are looking for.

[-] CarnivorousCouch@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

IDK, I don't feel like I had to say that much to get in with my alt. I just wrote about how I liked having some more heavily moderated spaces to discuss sensitive topics. I even mentioned that I planned to maintain an alt to access less moderated spaces, just that I also intended to respect the culture and the vibe of Beehaw when interacting there.

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[-] stown@sedd.it 36 points 1 year ago

They are trying to create a "Safe and friendly place".

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 13 points 1 year ago

They started with a commonly shared fediverse block list a lot of mastodon instances and stuff start up with. Since they've also defederated some instances that allow child porn, some political extreme instances, and some very large instances they couldn't moderate the influx from.

[-] Vorticity@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

They also defederated from instances that have open sign-ups because they allow bots to join too easily. This included lemmy.world.

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 year ago

That's what I meant with the last part

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[-] Hawke@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Pretty sure there are no significant instances that allow child porn.

[-] JohnEdwa@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

That would depend if you think lolicon or hentai of canonically underage characters in general is CP or not.
Doesn't matter in the case of Beehaw though because they defederate from any instance that allows pornographic NSFW content of any kind period - as do probably a majority of instances, at least until Lemmy creates better filtering systems.

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 11 points 1 year ago

Beehaw federates with porn instances like lemmynsfw.com

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 5 points 1 year ago

Indeed. Hence, no one was all that bothered by the defederation from a large list of small instances with problem material. The question is "why is the number so high" and that's a large part of it

[-] juliebean@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

there probably aren't any big ones, but i bet there's lots of tiny ones

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[-] UnicornKitty@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago

I feel like it's more important to know why these defederations happened than how many there are. Well beehaw just screams their reason with their number but that's a separate thing.

[-] SkyNTP@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Way too complicated and tedious. Do you audit the blacklist of your adblocker? Doubtful.

For the vast majority of people, a cliff's notes and prior experience with an instance's general moderation policy and trustworthiness will have to suffice. Not so different that choosing a social media platform or subreddit, really.

In my experience, I think these numbers correlate nicely with how curated the moderation is and inversely proportional to the tolerance to objectionable content from a moderate POV.

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[-] Kuma@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Great post! I want to add to this, you can use this site to check what instance blocked who https://federation-checker.vercel.app/

Search with lowercase, for some reason did lemmy.world not show all the instances that blocked them only instances they blocked when L or W was in capital letters.

[-] IFapToFarts@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

So is it possible for users in lemmy.world to see content from beehaw? Does this only limit beehaw users from seeing content on lemmy.world?

[-] Hildegarde@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Lemmy.world users can see behaw posts, but beehaw users can't see Lemmy.world posts. Comments cannot be seen by anyone outside their home instance.

Beehaw defederated from Lemmy.world, but Lemmy.world did not defederate from beehaw.

If you look at a Lemmy.world community through beehaw, you will only see posts from before defederation, or posts made by unaware beehaw users.

[-] IFapToFarts@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

What do you mean by comments cannot be seen by other instances?

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[-] jaamesbaxterr@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure it goes both ways.

[-] IFapToFarts@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Well that sucks, is it possible to transfer our account to another instance then?

[-] jaamesbaxterr@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

My understanding is that we cannot. I've seen people talking about it maybe becoming a thing in the future, but right now the only option is to just go register your name on another instance. Alternatively, I guess you can host your own instance with just you (or a few friends I guess) and then you control what gets federated, but for me that seems like a little too much work right now. I may consider that in the future if I had more free time.

[-] Madbrad200@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[-] Hildegarde@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

You are wrong. Defederation only goes both ways if both instances decide to defederate each other.

Beehaw and Lemmy.world was one way only. You can see all of beehaw's posts, but none of your interactions will leave your home instance.

The comments under a post will only be from Lemmy.world users, however.

[-] jaamesbaxterr@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Thank you for clearing that up. I feel like I've heard both yes and no to this question. Still learning everything so it's hard to recall what was correct. Also just want to say how cool it is that people don't make you feel dumb for being wrong here. That's one thing I will not miss about Reddit.

[-] Hildegarde@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You can view beehaw through a browser. If you want to check for yourself. I did verify this by viewing the same community from beehaw and not just before commenting so I'm pretty certain I'm giving accurate information.

Welcome to Lemmy, I hope you enjoy your time here.

EDIT: upon further checking, what I have been saying seems to be inaccurate. It seems beehaw is no longer sharing posts, the newest beehaw post I can find in Lemmy.world is from 2 days ago. It is likely that 0.18.1 blocks post sharing to defederated instances.

[-] Cabeza2000@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

So users in instance lemmy.world can see only the post in beehaw but not the comments in beehaw, because beehaw defederated from lemmy.world (one way only)? This actually creates more questions for me.

Why it is not possible to see beehaw users comments if lemmy.world has not defederated from beehaw?

Can I see comments on that post from users in instances that didn't defederate from lemmy.world? Can I reply to those users?

[-] Hildegarde@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

When you view any content on Lemmy, you are viewing and interacting with the local copy on your local instance.

Federation means that your instances's local copy should be up to date. Any changes or comments made on your local instance will be sent to the host's instance, to update the master copy there, which is then sent out all other instances.

Defederation cuts this off, leaving users only able to interact with their instance's local copy.

Posts are public. Any instance can download posts, so when Lemmy.world asks beehaw for new posts, it gets them so you can see all of beehaw's posts, and get your content.

Beehaw defederated with Lemmy.world, so beehaw is no longer requesting updated posts from Lemmy.world. So beehaw users will see increasingly out of date local versions of Lemmy.world communities if they try to view them.

Defederation also means that beehaw blocks anything that requires two-way communication, such as comments and votes. This is why beehaw will have mostly empty comment sections on Lemmy.world.

If you post or comment on a beehaw community, that interaction will not be federated. Beehaw will not get it, beehaw will not add it to the master copy.

But Lemmy.world added your content to its local copy. Other lemmy.world users will see it, but no one else. Even an instance in full federation with both, because instances only get updates from the master copy on the community's host. And defedrration means you cannot update the host's copy of the community.

This behavior is weird and confusing and not user friendly. I think future versions should treat one way defederated communities as unavailable or read only. Content that is out of date without explanation, or comments that go nowhere without an user-facing error message is not good ux.

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[-] AThing4String@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago

It was my understanding that defederation was a one way thing? So if instance A defederates instance B, A will not see anything from B but B could still see things from A?

[-] muddybulldog@mylemmy.win 9 points 1 year ago

Maybe consider altering your links so that they point to the /instances pages of each site so that people can go directly to the list of federated and defederated instances for each. Likely there are people who haven't yet discovered that page.

[-] MandelbuttMutt@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Is there a way to see what specific instances each instance has defederated from? Just curious

[-] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 year ago

Click on "instances" on the bottom of the page

[-] plutolink@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

beehaw.org at 405

Jeeez, that pretty much cements my reason for moving over from them. Defederating lemmy.world and other big instances for moderation reasons was reasonable for the time being, but that sheer number overall shows the control they want over their instance, and so much is excluded as a result, a lot of it likely due to ideological misalignment.

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[-] Haus@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
  • beehaw.org: 405
  • feddit.de: 101
  • lemmy.world: 63
  • lemmy.m:l 44
  • sh.itjust.works: 4
  • exploding-heads.com: 3
[-] polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 1 year ago

Lemmygrad has defederated from 43 other instances.

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Yep. Jumped between a couple of instances because of it.

[-] scuczu@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

who owns the urls?

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this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2023
204 points (97.2% liked)

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