this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2024
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Hey everyone, I've removed bans for everyone that did not request one in the previous admin thread. (I think. If you got banned and I didn't restore your account yet, let me know and I'll fix it.) Don't worry! We're not gonna just ban people for no reason.

In case anyone hasn't seen it yet, Alaskaball confirmed that Sangria was their admin alt. They were messing around with their admin tools on their own account and figured it would be seen as a funny bit, but without being informed of the bit many of the mods and admins were just as shocked, confused, and appalled as you were. I've talked to the other admins and mods, and we're all gonna take it easy on bits for a bit. (Pun intended. This is the last one, I promise.)

If you're afraid that there's been an infiltration of transphobic, egomaniacal wrecker mods who hate the users, I want to assure you that's absolutely not the case. The overwhelming majority of mods and admins on this site are trans. Our admins are all trusted, long-time users in good standing. We regularly browse, comment, and post on our main accounts. You post and chat with us daily as comrades, and we value all of you. You may not recognize the usernames on our admin accounts because we regularly swap the alts used for admin privileges. This is why you'll see really old or unused alt accounts as well as really new accounts on the admin team.

I've seen a lot of speculation down below, some entertaining, some upsetting. We absolutely do not accept transphobia or any form of bigotry on this site. Some of the statements provided by mods and admins have been seen as transphobic and bioessentialist. I want to offer some transparency, but also clarify that I can't get much more specific on this for personal security reasons.

During the earlier discussions on how we felt things could be improved with these communities, multiple trans mods and admins described their reasoning in favour of the change by expressing with a variety of wording that it's the [he/him] demographic in particular that has been the source of toxic and troubling behavior in the tanks. That the he/hims haven't been beating the accusations, so to speak. With that group being largely cishet white guys on this site, these two terms were assumed to roughly correlate. We weren't making prepared statements for release, the comments that got posted here were paraphrased and combined from more casual comments made by trans people, in the mod chat to mostly other trans people about some of the chauvinistic and ironically bigoted posting habits that they saw as alienating and unhealthy for the site, and what we could do to improve the situation. We genuinely didn't foresee the potential for a miscommunication of those statements as being bioessentialist, and want to extend our sincerest apologies for the misunderstanding.

Edit: Please feel welcome to post in c/gossip as you would have posted in the_dunk_tank, and in c/counterpropaganda as you would have posted in the_dredge_tank.

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[–] TheDeed@hexbear.net 50 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

The will of the users seem to be to restore the dunk tank. Call it something else, ~~sure, but realize that our reputation amongst other instances is not going to be restored just because you nuked it~~

~~Similar to how Kamala campaigning with Dick Cheney still got her called a communist or whatever, other instances will continue to make up lies about Hexbear because that's what they do and they don't give a shit about what is actually posted here.~~

edit: I am not cis and I am not het fwiw

Edit2: this was misinfo on my part

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[–] TomBombadil@hexbear.net 61 points 3 days ago (1 children)

All I'll say now is that this reminds me of the good ole days. Back when a struggle session was the main attraction of hexbear.

I was told we had to ban the tanks because in part they serve only to create drama and attract users who like drama. Well I guess they were right. Good thing there's no drama now.

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[–] WIIHAPPYFEW@hexbear.net 32 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (7 children)

Oh shit TransCom really did delete hir account ~~and go into witness protection in Belmont Shore to become a kitesurfer~~

mystery-emote

ALL WE HAD TO DO WAS HOLD A POLL ON WHAT TO RENAME DUNK

CAN WE JUST WRAP THIS UP BY THE END OF THE NIGHT GODDAMN

I mean I know it’s simmering down but STILL you know we’ve gotta sort ourselves out when that’s all it takes to fuck over the site government

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[–] PM_ME_YOUR_FOUCAULTS@hexbear.net 50 points 3 days ago (17 children)

I hope we can all agree that wherever we were at during this debacle, that we wish things had gone differently and never gotten this far

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[–] SubstantialNothingness@hexbear.net 30 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This has been... an interesting adventure.

I'm very glad I don't rely on hexbear for health or happiness.

Thanks to everyone who has put in effort to get this sequence of ordeals resolved amicably.

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[–] Dessa@hexbear.net 79 points 4 days ago (4 children)

I have no idea what's going on, but every time I check in, it seems to be worse

[–] SixSidedUrsine@hexbear.net 67 points 4 days ago

It really is astounding how the mods and admins keep making it worse. It could have been solved so easily at several different points, but they seem to insist instead on doing the condescending lib PR thing and pissing everyone off, then banning them for expressing discontent.

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[–] iie@hexbear.net 33 points 3 days ago (9 children)

The reason most of us hate struggle sessions, the reason so many of us lay low until these things die down, is that struggle sessions are too fast and chaotic to be dialogue. Everyone gets too heated and pressed and defensive to actually listen or reach an understanding, so it turns into people talking past each other, sometimes building up personal resentments that last long after the struggle session ends and have little to do with the original disagreement. If you wade into it, you risk making enemies, and you don't chance making friends.

I think we need some site meta-culture or protocols for how to handle large conflicts in a healthier way in the future, regardless of the content of the conflict.

[–] REgon@hexbear.net 33 points 3 days ago (5 children)

I gotta say as a participant in a lot of these sessions, and I know this sounds funny or stereotypical, but...
Most strugglesessions I've experienced happens because of the following

  • People disagree on something minor
  • Mods take one side
  • The side with the mods make low-effort posts dunking on the others, while claiming the others are just [insert baseless accusation] + mad + infants (we love our casual ableism folks)
  • The other side, being met with increasing hostility and dismissal are getting increasingly frustrated and desperate as they are still not being met, despite making great efforts to have their POV understood
  • Mods ban one or two of the worst offenders of their preferred side, and a bunch from the others until the thing dies down
  • Things die down
  • People ask questions about what happened
  • Mods remove any mention that does not support the narrative that their side was rational under cover of "avoiding metaposting"/"no relitigatin past strugglesessions"
  • ND users especially are fucked because they don't understand what they did wrong
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[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 41 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (8 children)

I'll try to keep this short, I think the more I talk the less people like me, and the more I shut the fuck up and listen the more people like me. Funny how that works lol, I think I'm just an annoying asshole that people secretly hate but that's a separate issue. Trying to do some self-crit on how I interact with others, I've been likely making others uncomfortable IMO so I'm gonna shut the fuck up and listen more. Anyways...

First of all, I love this site. I am new here, only half a year, but I truly love that I can shitpost with comrades without having liberals throw a fit. I love that I can dig into the News Mega and read good analysis from comrades like @Awoo@hexbear.net or @SeventyTwoTrillion@hexbear.net (please come back to admin!). I love that I can make an essay on some Fallout: New Vegas mod 3 people have played and have people take it seriously. I really love this site, and I think most of the users, mods, and admins do too. I want this comfort and safety to be felt by all users, not just me.

Second, I hope the claims of chauvanism and misogyny are not shelved, but investigated openly. I think a lot of the pushback against this was a lack of evidence presented, and the struggle around this aspect could have been lessened with a few examples. If we want this to be a safe space for marginalized comrades, marginalized comrades should have their voices respected when it comes to how they experience the site. I think the fact that these claims were discussed behind closed doors compounded the problems, and garnered undue pusback. I understand why these conversations weren't held publicly either, out of preventing harrassment and for safety, which is why I think having prepared examples and evidence under CWs would help prevent pushback. The fact that several trans members have expressed issue with [he/hims] should be taken seriously. Edit 2: Speaking of, if I have contributed to this as a [he/him] user or as a white person in general, please let me know, even in DMs with an alt if you want to remain anonymous. I'll make a selfcrit post and do better, I promise, I'm stupid so please have patience, I want everyone to feel safe here like I do. It's not on others to correct behavior but just in case. i-love-not-thinking

~~Third, the user that keeps making accounts and attacking people needs to come forward and self-crit, or be removed. This is unacceptable. It's good that the transphobic statement was addressed, but as far as I know the harrassment is an open issue.~~ Edit 1: Looks like this was resolved! Thanks! packwatch

Fourth, the Admins. @CARCOSA@hexbear.net should not have been the shield taking the brunt of pushback, and should not step down. They were very level-headed. TransComrade69 should not have been handling everything alone either, which is how it appeared. Regardless of how ze was handling the situation, it was only magnified by having hir handle the sitiation seemingly alone. @Alaskaball@hexbear.net lol. Lmao, even. Honestly a good bit, but the timing could not have been better, or worse, I guess. Glad to see you stepping up to be an open face of the admin team, that should help repair user relations a bit. @Lyudmila@hexbear.net you're handling things very well, props!

To cap this all off, this all spiraled out of control because people here clearly care a lot about the site, outside of a few rogue elements the overwhelming majority stood by our trans comrades even at risk of being banned. Not everyone behaved well, I won't pretend that, but I do think the vast majority of users here are kind, considerate, and willing to discuss the actions taken to fix the problems that started this debaucle.

Love y'all, hope we can bounce back stronger as @Frank@hexbear.net said, and as @Awoo@hexbear.net said we may need to just slow our roll on posting a bit and not take every little thing as seriously as possible.

heart-sickle

Edit 3: tried and failed to keep it short, lol

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[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 67 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (28 children)

For the love of god stop posting please.

I mean this with love, for this team and this site.

Context for my take:

https://hexbear.net/comment/5620189

https://hexbear.net/comment/5620267

Just stop fuelling this whole thing. It's that easy.

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[–] Yukiko@hexbear.net 72 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (5 children)

Why wouldn't I be afraid that the admin team hasn't had some form of transphobia kicking around in it when I got banned shortly after I attempted to defend my trans comrades with the following text.

The admin team needs combed through for transphobia immediately. Between the anonymous comment and this where an admin misgenders AlaskaBall, there's clearly an issue that needs addressed. If you folks want to continue being known as the transfriendly instance, it's time to act like it.

I don't care how much of a funny bit you think any of this shit is, but you need to gauge when shit is starting to careen out of control. It is not fucking okay that you folks banned me for that. As a transwoman, getting banned for that comment is a huge red flag for me. I've been here for a long fucking time and have been a mod of the traa community in the past. I'm still on there. I'm the only one without pronouns cause I deleted my account for opsec reasons. What was done and continues to be done is not acceptable and is purely childish behavior on the part of the people that run this site. You folks seriously need to all do self crit or get the fuck out.

I think the worst part about all of this is that the ban reason given made it seem like I asked for it, obfuscating and giving absolutely no real reason as to why I was banned. This is clearly because there was no reason and you folks just wanted me to shut up for whatever reason. Fucking figure out your shit admins.

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[–] SoloboiNanook@hexbear.net 22 points 3 days ago (1 children)
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[–] Frank@hexbear.net 32 points 3 days ago

Suggestion for effortposting for the next little while:

Sometimes when i'm upset or just need time to work out if what i'm saying is what i want to be saying i'll open a text document, write down what i want to say, save it, then come back to it a few days later once i've had time to sleep and process and then re-examine it. I find it can be helpful.

[–] niph@hexbear.net 64 points 4 days ago (1 children)

This is the first sensible post to come out of the admin team since the start of this insanity.

Still a lot of room for improvement - not sure that “associating behavioural trends with pronoun tags” is a route we should ever go down, to be honest.

But after the past few days of being entirely baffled by whatever the hell was going on with the rest of the admins, this is a step in the right direction.

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