this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024
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[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 14 points 9 hours ago (1 children)
[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 8 hours ago

I've been hearing about the imminent crash for the last two years. New money keeps getting injected into the system. The bubble can't deflate while both the public and private sector have an unlimited lung capacity to keep puffing into it. FFS, bitcoin is on a tear right now, just because Trump won the election.

This bullshit isn't going away. Its only going to get forced down our throats harder and harder, until we swallow or choke on it.

[–] recapitated@lemmy.world 10 points 10 hours ago

I think I've heard about enough of experts predicting the future lately.

[–] nl4real@lemmy.world 6 points 9 hours ago

Fingers crossed.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 27 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

Thank fuck. Can we have cheaper graphics cards again please?

I'm sure a RTX 4090 is very impressive, but it's not £1800 impressive.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 hours ago

Sorry, crypto is back in season.

[–] tempest@lemmy.ca 5 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

I swapped to AMD this generation and it's still expensive.

[–] woodenskewer@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

A well researched pre-owned is the way to go. I bought a 6900xt a couple years ago for a deal.

[–] jas0n@lemmy.world 4 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I used to buy broken video cards on ebay for ~$25-50. The ones that run, but shut off have clogged heat sinks. No tools or parts required. Just blow out the dust. Obviously more risky, but sometimes you can hit gold.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

If you can buy a ten and one works, you've saved money. Two work and you're making money. The only question is whether the tenth card really will work or not.

[–] tempest@lemmy.ca 2 points 9 hours ago

I used to get EVGA bstock which was reasonable but they got out of the business 😞

[–] dog_@lemmy.world 5 points 10 hours ago
[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 39 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

It's so funny how all this is only a problem within a capitalist frame of reference.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 2 points 9 hours ago

What they call "AI" is only "intelligent" within a capitalist frame of reference, too.

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 10 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

Marcus is right, incremental improvements in AIs like ChatGPT will not lead to AGI and were never on that course to begin with. What LLMs do is fundamentally not "intelligence", they just imitate human response based on existing human-generated content. This can produce usable results, but not because the LLM has any understanding of the question. Since the current AI surge is based almost entirely on LLMs, the delusion that the industry will soon achieve AGI is doomed to fall apart - but not until a lot of smart speculators have gotten in and out and made a pile of money.

[–] randon31415@lemmy.world 25 points 16 hours ago (5 children)

The hype should go the other way. Instead of bigger and bigger models that do more and more - have smaller models that are just as effective. Get them onto personal computers; get them onto phones; get them onto Arduino minis that cost $20 - and then have those models be as good as the big LLMs and Image gen programs.

[–] Yaky@slrpnk.net 16 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Other than with language models, this has already happened: Take a look at apps such as Merlin Bird ID (identifies birds fairly well by sound and somewhat okay visually), WhoBird (identifies birds by sound, ) Seek (visually identifies plants, fungi, insects, and animals). All of them work offline. IMO these are much better uses of ML than spammer-friendly text generation.

[–] stringere@sh.itjust.works 2 points 11 hours ago

Platnet and iNaturalist are pretty good for plant identification as well, I use them all the time to find out what's volunteering in my garden. Just looked them up and it turns out iNaturalist is by Seek.

[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 8 points 13 hours ago

This has already started to happen. The new llama3.2 model is only 3.7GB and it WAAAAY faster than anything else. It can thow a wall of text at you in just a couple of seconds. You're still not running it on $20 hardware, but you no longer need a 3090 to have something useful.

[–] dustyData@lemmy.world 5 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

Well, you see, that's the really hard part of LLMs. Getting good results is a direct function of the size of the model. The bigger the model, the more effective it can be at its task. However, there's something called compute efficient frontier (technical but neatly explained video about it). Basically you can't make a model more effective at their computations beyond said linear boundary for any given size. The only way to make a model better, is to make it larger (what most mega corps have been doing) or radically change the algorithms and method underlying the model. But the latter has been proving to be extraordinarily hard. Mostly because to understand what is going on inside the model you need to think in rather abstract and esoteric mathematical principles that bend your mind backwards. You can compress an already trained model to run on smaller hardware. But to train them, you still need the humongously large datasets and power hungry processing. This is compounded by the fact that larger and larger models are ever more expensive while providing rapidly diminishing returns. Oh, and we are quickly running out of quality usable data, so shoveling more data after a certain point starts to actually provide worse results unless you dedicate thousands of hours of human labor producing, collecting and cleaning the new data. That's all even before you have to address data poisoning, where previously LLM generated data is fed back to train a model but it is very hard to prevent it from devolving into incoherence after a couple of generations.

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[–] Defaced@lemmy.world 15 points 17 hours ago

This is why you're seeing news articles from Sam Altman saying that AGI will blow past us without any societal impact. He's trying to lessen the blow of the bubble bursting for AI/ML.

[–] Mushroomm@sh.itjust.works 12 points 17 hours ago

It's been 5 minutes since the new thing did a new thing. Is it the end?

[–] CerealKiller01@lemmy.world 25 points 21 hours ago (10 children)

Huh?

The smartphone improvements hit a rubber wall a few years ago (disregarding folding screens, that compose a small market share, improvement rate slowed down drastically), and the industry is doing fine. It's not growing like it use to, but that just means people are keeping their smartphones for longer periods of time, not that people stopped using them.

Even if AI were to completely freeze right now, people will continue using it.

Why are people reacting like AI is going to get dropped?

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 12 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

People are dumping billions of dollars into it, mostly power, but it cannot turn profit.

So the companies who, for example, revived a nuclear power facility in order to feed their machine with ever diminishing returns of quality output are going to shut everything down at massive losses and countless hours of human work and lifespan thrown down the drain.

This will have an economic impact quite large as many newly created jobs go up in smoke and businesses who structured around the assumption of continued availability of high end AI need to reorganize or go out of business.

Search up the Dot Com Bubble.

[–] theherk@lemmy.world 15 points 17 hours ago

Because in some eyes, infinite rapid growth is the only measure of success.

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[–] rational_lib@lemmy.world 8 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

As I use copilot to write software, I have a hard time seeing how it'll get better than it already is. The fundamental problem of all machine learning is that the training data has to be good enough to solve the problem. So the problems I run into make sense, like:

  1. Copilot can't read my mind and figure out what I'm trying to do.
  2. I'm working on an uncommon problem where the typical solutions don't work
  3. Copilot is unable to tell when it doesn't "know" the answer, because of course it's just simulating communication and doesn't really know anything.

2 and 3 could be alleviated, but probably not solved completely with more and better data or engineering changes - but obviously AI developers started by training the models on the most useful data and strategies that they think work best. 1 seems fundamentally unsolvable.

I think there could be some more advances in finding more and better use cases, but I'm a pessimist when it comes to any serious advances in the underlying technology.

[–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 4 points 11 hours ago (3 children)

So you use other people's open source code without crediting the authors or respecting their license conditions? Good for you, parasite.

[–] rational_lib@lemmy.world 4 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Very frequently, yes. As well as closed source code and intellectual property of all kinds. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar.

[–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

Ah, I guess I'll have to question why I am lying to myself then. Don't be a douchebag. Don't use open source without respecting copyrights & licenses. The authors are already providing their work for free. Don't shit on that legacy.

[–] helopigs@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Programmers don't have the luxury of using inferior toolsets.

[–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

That statement is as dumb as it is non-sensical.

[–] constantturtleaction@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Ahh right, so when I use copilot to autocomplete the creation of more tests in exactly the same style of the tests I manually created with my own conscious thought, you're saying that it's really just copying what someone else wrote? If you really believe that, then you clearly don't understand how LLMs work.

[–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

I know both LLM mechanisms better than you, it would appear, and my point is not so weak that I would have to fabricate a strawman that I then claim is what you said, to proceed to argue the strawman.

Using LLMs trained on other people's source code is parasitic behaviour and violates copyrights and licenses.

[–] ggppjj@lemmy.world 7 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

Not copilot, but I run into a fourth problem:
4. The LLM gets hung up on insisting that a newer feature of the language I'm using is wrong and keeps focusing on "fixing" it, even though it has access to the newest correct specifications where the feature is explicitly defined and explained.

[–] rumba@lemmy.zip 5 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Oh god yes, ran into this asking for a shell.nix file with a handful of tricky dependencies. It kept trying to do this insanely complicated temporary pull and build from git instead of just a 6 line file asking for the right packages.

[–] ggppjj@lemmy.world 5 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

"This code is giving me a return value of X instead of Y"

"Ah the reason you're having trouble is because you initialized this list with brackets instead of new()."

"How would a syntax error give me an incorrect return"

"You're right, thanks for correcting me!"

"Ok so like... The problem though."

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🤷‍♂️ I only use local generators at this point,so I don't care.

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