this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2024
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298
Biden Allows Ukraine to Strike Russia With Long-Range U.S. Missiles (www.nytimes.com)
submitted 8 hours ago by credo@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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[–] peopleproblems@lemmy.world 15 points 5 hours ago

While they won't be able to reach Moscow with these, even from within Kursk, I am willing to bet the authorization was withheld on intelligence grounds. A lot of things in the war make sense if you look at it from the perspective that arms support can't be guaranteed.

Instead of letting Ukraine just burn through weapons, the US and allies have waited until they have the full operational capability to deploy the weapons with extreme effectiveness. They've had ATACMS for a while, so I suspect they held off deep strikes until the most effective targets had been identified and the likelihood of effective strike was near certain.

[–] kokesh@lemmy.world 17 points 5 hours ago

Kremlin. Go for Kremlin.

[–] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 68 points 7 hours ago (4 children)

wow. kudos for being the "now that it's too late to have an impact, i'm going to do the thing i should have done many months ago" president

[–] Arbiter@lemmy.world 66 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Long range missiles can have a lot of impact in a short time.

[–] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 36 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

all the more reason this (among other things) should have happened many months ago

[–] Arbiter@lemmy.world 41 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Yeah, but now is better than never.

God knows Trump wouldn’t authorize it.

[–] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 16 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (3 children)

you're right. i'm just salty because we live in a fascist dictatorship now

we're basically russia. could biden have even done anything? i don't even know

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Not exactly russia.

I know 2nd trump term is terrifying, I'm not denying that this will be worse than his first term, but the difference is that the US has the separation of powers between the states and the federal government. The check and balance within the federal government is gone, but we still have this final line of defence, that is federalism. States can resist tyranny of the federal government, if they have the willingness to do so. Remember, that states run elections, swing states do not all have a republican trifecta. And even in republican trifecta states, there is still the state judiciary, and we might still have some of those non-magas republicans like Raffensperger.

The election in 2026 will likely be less free and fair than 2024, but with a large enough democratic margin of victory, democrats can still take back the house, maybe senate.

Maybe I'm in denial, but I consider this view to be optimism. I thought people like Raffensperger would just cave in and do whatever trump wanted but they didn't.

Don't give up hope. We'll soon see if federalism really works, if states would find the will to resist a tyrannical federal government.

[–] MagicShel@lemmy.zip 3 points 6 hours ago

Time for those 2A proponents to step up.... oh.

No, I think your message is spot on. We'll weather Trump, if a bit worse for the wear. We survived a literal civil war, we'll survive him.

[–] Arbiter@lemmy.world 28 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

As long as we draw breath it ain’t over.

Get out there and organize.

[–] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 4 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

how do you organize with people who refuse to consider anything other than "maybe it won't be that bad" or worse?

if you have a network of people who you trust and are actually willing to take some kind of action beyond "oh well i guess this is life now," then i'm officially jealous

[–] Arbiter@lemmy.world 13 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Well, a network of likeminded people won’t just find you. It’s something you’ve gotta seek out.

Look for local non-profits and political groups that advocate for the positions you care about and get involved.

[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 4 points 6 hours ago

also there's a difference between an imperfect coalition and a compromised coalition. you may not be religious, but the organizations closest to you might be religious. it's far better to talk with open minded elca lutherans than close minded patriot front goons about what to do next. understand that there are many kinds of fascist and many kinds of anti-fascist. even the deepest red counties have people who who voted for harris because they have seen firsthand the dangers of christofascism. project 2025 is deeply unpopular and a disturbing number of people still don't realize that voting for trump and against project 2025 was not and is not an available ballot option.

here's the thing: this will never be over. not until the entire world over is free. every rise of authoritarianism has given us stories of heroes who resisted. you can hear their echos all throughout religious stories, songs, and secular media. they all tell us the same things: as long as we make art to pass down to the children, no authoritarian can ever rule forever, not even the ur-farscist, the political strongman who crops up every 80 years to lie to us about how he will free us.

right now, start telling the word truths about itself in places the right wing doesn't know how to reach. writing by hand in a journal, creating poetry, singing songs, writing in the streets with chalk. these are all things you can do while you're still looking for someone to organize with that help pass on the truth of the world to future people.

also, look for marginalized people in your community. they have been living with this terror all along. they know:

  1. what to do
  2. what you can do that will help
  3. the kinds of things people new to this do that they think is help that actually isn't

in other words: they are veterans of this 10k year long war. they have inherited stories you have never heard, and they still have hope even as things get worse for them.

i believe in you, and i believe in the power of everlasting peace, one where there's room for everyone at the table and everyone gets a plate before anyone gets seconds

[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 7 points 7 hours ago

Oh no, one missile went astray and hit Mar-a-Lago. OH NO WE"RE SO SORRY

[–] UsernameHere@lemmy.world 3 points 6 hours ago

At the start of the invasion Russia was claiming they finally had hypersonic nuclear missles. Meaning they could get nukes past defense systems. That is the reason the US was hesitant to let things escalate.

Since then we’ve found out that Russias hypersonic missles had some misfires and still didn’t have the ability to steer at hypersonic speeds if I remember right.

That plus the fact that Trump is months away from helping Russia changes the strategy.

[–] ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 1 points 7 hours ago

Sounds like your average president

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 6 hours ago

Lame-duck presidency in a nutshell.

[–] TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee 55 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Now give them a thousand tomahawks and the location of every single Putin palace.

[–] tired_n_bored@lemmy.world 4 points 6 hours ago

Unfortunately, only allowed in Kursk

[–] ryedaft@sh.itjust.works 8 points 5 hours ago

They only have 300 km range. They are very nice but still. Pretty sure Ukraine has struck further inland with drones.

[–] credo@lemmy.world 24 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

I believe NYT makes you login, even on a gift link. Here is a TLDR:

President Biden has authorized Ukraine to use U.S.-supplied long-range Army Tactical Missile Systems (ATACMS) to strike Russian and North Korean forces in Russia, a significant shift in U.S. policy. This decision comes in response to Russia’s introduction of North Korean troops into the conflict and their anticipated assault on Ukrainian forces in the Kursk region.

The move reflects growing concerns over Ukraine’s ability to withstand simultaneous assaults while defending territory. The authorization aims to bolster Ukraine’s defense, target high-value military assets, and deter North Korean involvement. However, it has sparked debate among U.S. officials over escalation risks, as Russia might retaliate against the U.S. or its allies.

President-elect Donald Trump, who has vowed to reduce U.S. support for Ukraine, is set to take office in two months, adding urgency to the decision. The Ukrainian strategy may include using captured Russian territory in Kursk as leverage in potential future negotiations. Meanwhile, the risk of Russian countermeasures remains a central concern for Biden’s administration and its allies.

My take: I’ve been waiting on this since the US election. It’s sound strategy of we believe Putin won’t want to escalate with NATO before Trump takes office.

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 19 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

The other side of this is that once it's allowed, Trump would have to take it away.

[–] credo@lemmy.world 12 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

I think Trump will simply stop sending any new munitions.

[–] PixelatedSaturn@lemmy.world 9 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Possible, but other countries that have such weapons are sure to follow and allow the use now.

[–] Homescool@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago

Holding back money for missiles? Where do you people get this stuff? ^^^/$

[–] eran_morad@lemmy.world -3 points 6 hours ago

I think the sun will rise tomorrow, personally.

[–] SaltySalamander@fedia.io 1 points 6 hours ago

I believe NYT makes you login, even on a gift link

Requires javascript to be enabled. Fuck everything about that.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 19 points 7 hours ago

Better late than never, I guess.

[–] Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 5 hours ago

Ah. Some fireworks before the show is over.

[–] xc2215x@lemmy.world 7 points 6 hours ago

Good move by Biden.

[–] eran_morad@lemmy.world 5 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (3 children)

something about this seems kind of fucky. the time to do this was years ago. what is brandon's calculation? that russia won't do shit because their bitch is taking over? or is he finally convinced, somehow, that russia could never do shit in the first place?

[–] GetOffMyLan@programming.dev 24 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I think north Korea entering the fight likely has a lot to do with it.

Plus now trump will have to actively take this permission away as opposed to not giving it.

[–] _bcron_@lemmy.world 11 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

I'm gonna preface this by saying I totally don't support this so don't shoot the messenger, but half of it was that Russia doesn't have the resources to prolong this war indefinitely. For every dollar Ukraine spends Russia loses a couple, for every Ukrainian casualty there are well over half a dozen Russian casualties. Russia staying in this war is catastrophic for Russia so there are geopolitical reasons for people wanting this war to not end but to continue. Eventually Russia would be forced to give up.

But, now time is suddenly on Russia's side because the new administration will likely withold aid in an attempt to broker a deal that will almost certainly involve ceding Russian-occupied land, so it's basically a Hail Mary play right now. No more playing defense, push right to the end zone before the buzzer goes off. If they can actually strike where DPRK troops are staging, hopefully Europe can continue in the absence of the US, that kind of thing

[–] eran_morad@lemmy.world -5 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

it smacks of desperation. but whatever damages russia can only be seen as a boon for humanity. i think brandon may be trying to salvage some positive glimmer in what is otherwise his historic failure of a presidency.

[–] _bcron_@lemmy.world 7 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Opine if that besoothes you, but Russia's benchmark rate is >20%, their inflation is equally bonkers, and they're now leaning on North Korean troops. There is definitely desperation in this war

[–] eran_morad@lemmy.world -4 points 5 hours ago

it's obviously a desperate attempt at fixing his epic cowardly fuckup in ukraine. both sides can be desparate, in case you are unaware.

[–] MagicShel@lemmy.zip 3 points 6 hours ago

Historic failure? I think domestically he has been an excellent President. Probably better than Obama. We got really lucky or he did a good job with inflation and the soft landing.

We had much lower inflation than most nations. Gaza left a nasty stain, but that was a small part of what he did as President.

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 6 hours ago

Lame-duck presidency.

Doing it before can affect the election. He didn't know Kamala was gonna lose anyways.