this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2024
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[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 22 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

The best class I took in college was an intercession course about the Vietnam War. We had to read an entire book pretty much every day, which was great prep for grad school.

I basically learned that the entire war was completely unjustified, it was horrific and brutal on both sides in ways that aren’t talked about, but that ultimately the United States had absolutely no business interfering. Vietnam had spent years under French colonial control, which they overthrew under their own power. They had already asserted a desire to rule themselves.

Tonkin was also a genuine false flag, which just isn’t acknowledged? We manufactured the cause for an extremely unpopular war. So many young man died or were disabled because of something that was pointless.

That class was first that really got me to question the patriotic narrative I was taught about American history in high school.

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 1 points 33 minutes ago

Vietnam got a rough fucking deal in the 1900s. Shortly after the US left, the Cambodians under Pol Pot invaded, and they were brutal

[–] Not_mikey@slrpnk.net 5 points 2 hours ago

Of course we can't acknowledge it, because then we can't make the same "mistake" again and people will start questioning real causus belli like saddams WMDs which we'll find any day now.

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 6 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Sweet! I got Star Wars!

[–] FiskFisk33@startrek.website 5 points 4 hours ago

the century of war between Berwick-upon-tweed and Russia

[–] bandwidthcrisis@lemmy.world 24 points 7 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Klear@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago

Pretty sure they made a video game series about that.

[–] Boozilla@lemmy.world 37 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

I'm the War on Christmas guy, and I'm getting my ass handed to me every single year.

[–] Lemminary@lemmy.world 3 points 6 hours ago

I'm the war on drugs guy and I... what was I talking about? Man, those brownies were strong! *strolls off*

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[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 13 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

pfft. enlist when you're 18, you'll get a whole new war.

[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 24 points 12 hours ago (5 children)

WWIII nut here.

Get yourself a Red Cross emergency kit, a lot of water jugs, and ramen. You're underestimating your chances of survival and how much you'll want to.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 8 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

You’re underestimating your chances of survival and how much you’ll want to.

yes, you too can live out the remainder of your miserable days scrambling for rat meat in the irradiated future.

of course, the desire to live, to survive, overcomes a lot, but 'want to live' I think is stretching it a bit.

[–] Sergio@slrpnk.net 3 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

I suspect what they're getting at is: there are a lot of scenarios other than "all out exchange between major powers", and when the fallout starts floating, you can either just hang out at home (and die of cancer in a year or two), or shelter in a basement for a week (and emerge to a troubled but liveable world.)

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 3 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

shelter in a basement for a week (and emerge to a troubled but liveable world.)

give this a read sometime. https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/748264/nuclear-war-by-annie-jacobsen/

I don't think anyone's going to hold up for a week then find the world very livable. even the areas not eradicated by direct strikes will suffer terribly from the food shortages and collapsing societies.

[–] Sergio@slrpnk.net 3 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I'm familiar with the extinction event scenarios, and agree that in some cases one may not find the world worth living in. I recommend Krepinevich's "7 Deadly Scenarios", a couple of those involve nuclear attacks. The sitations are comparable to the recent Covid pandemic: millions of people die, the world is subsequently scarred, but life goes on for most people. A bit of planning can make things less horrible and a lot of it overlaps with natural disaster.

[–] mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

I think you may misunderstand. <edit or I'm misreading your replies>

Jacob's book covers an all in exchange. everyone goes max. very little in the northern hemisphere would survive. a bit of planning, all the planning in the world - neither will save you when each side is maximizing the amount of fallout with ground strikes with megaton weapons.

the 'lucky' folk in the southern hemisphere will just have to wait until the after effects catch up to them.

Jacob's scenario is megadeaths to gigadeaths - literally a billion dead directly (flash/blast/etc) and multiple billions dead shortly after. Krepinevich's scenario is a few terrorists with tactical weapons.

these are wildly different things.

<edit I don't think you're meaning to downplay the seriousness of any kind of major nuclear exchange, but just underestimating how seriously civilization ending it is>

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[–] GraniteM@lemmy.world 8 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

I listened to Hardcore History's series on World War I in that window, so that was my assigned war of interest.

[–] ThePancake@lemmy.world 5 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

This was me too. I probably listened through the "Blueprint for Armageddon" series three times. Never really found any other history podcast that piqued my interest nearly as much as that did.

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

I like that he’s very open about the fact that he’s not an expert/professional historian. He walks the line between storytelling and rigor pretty well for a pop historian. My favorite episode is the one about the Memnonite (edit: Anabaptist) rebellion that ended with corpses being left up for centuries.

[–] De_Narm@lemmy.world 176 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

I've got class war, which is a real doozy.

[–] Manifish_Destiny@lemmy.world 53 points 17 hours ago (3 children)

Yooo same. Why the fuck don't these people just fuck off and relax? I can't imagine having that much money and still feeling like I have to go to work.

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[–] squidman@lemmy.world 43 points 16 hours ago

Hell yeah, I got the Dominion War. Time for another DS9 rewatch.

[–] troyunrau@lemmy.ca 20 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

War of the Roses, winner of Best Named War ;)

[–] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

The Great Emu War would like a word.

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[–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 16 points 14 hours ago (5 children)

I missed the memo. I am just generally anti war and don't like reading about them. War is all because of dickhead leaders that can't act decent, treat others right, or talk things out without being little insecure manbabies. And when manchildren in power have their big boi pp insulted they make the less powerful fight for them instead of doing anything respectful. Some rebellions which lead to wars are justified. Gotta stick it back to the empowered manchildren sometimes. But it all comes down to a shitty leader.

[–] andros_rex@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago

It can be very valuable and interesting to study the surrounding context of a war. Military history with battles and kill counts and discussions of tactics is something I find boring af, but there are endless discussions to be had about how the causes of the American Civil War can be traced back to before even the Revolution and tracing the repercussions of the war all the way up through to current politics.

Think about how the Taiping Rebellion, which killed more than 20 million people, would have affected day to day life in 19th century China - which weakened China and rendered it more vulnerable to European powers. Think the Opium Wars. Think about how Hong Kong was just returned to China in 1999 - and all of the complexities that entailed.

Or how the World Wars depopulated Russia. You had a generation dead or traumatized. Russian alcoholism is usually treated as a joke - trauma can have intergenerational changes in genetic expression.

Wars also make excellent chronological signposts. I’ garbage at dates, but usually wars segment significant social/economic/cultural/blah/blah/blah changes that they help me keep events organized in my head.

[–] TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I think you missed the joke, it's not making a point about all wars being bad it's about middle aged dudes being obsessed with wars

[–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago

I understood the joke just fine. I started my comment off with "I missed the memo" implying I never took any interest in wars or never got assigned a war to obsess over.

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[–] ODuffer@lemmy.world 37 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

I participated in the war on drugs...

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