I get it. you're immature and are unable to concede a point. you really should reflect back on the fact I literally haven't called you a single name while you've been calling me unread, dense, high, a child, an imbecile, insufferably stupid, insufferably an asshole, along with other things.

send as many clown emojis as you want dude. you know I know that you know you were wrong and whether or not you slept through history class in belarus or whatever country you were raised in has nothing to do with the simple fact rosa died after the russian soviet federative socialist republic was established and the bolsheviks were in control of the country. its such a dumb hill to die on

its okay to admit you're wrong. sorry if hist.msu.ru is not a good enough citation for you. I dunno if moscow state university is an authoritative enough source or if I need to go back to youtube videos

https://www.hist.msu.ru/ER/Etext/cnst1918.htm

literally just read this and tell me if the date at the top is before or after 1919

you being belarusian just makes this so much more sader for me that you don't know your own history. I have to wonder for whose government the red army was fighting for for in the civil war after trotsky established it on the 28th of january 1918 and how they're getting guns and ammunition and food if the bolsheviks were not in charge of russia. or wtf you think Российская Советская Федеративная Социалистическая Республика means which was established on the 7th of november 1917

right now I think I know the problem. you don't know the history of the russian civil war. it only took the bolsheviks about a week to take over most of the largest population centers and by russian new year they controlled the majority of russia and were implementing their policy on the country. please just watch this youtube video so you have a general idea of the timeline of events https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLDz5QIjQb0

even if that were true and the russian republic was literally the exact same as the russian empire the october revolution happened in 1917... cmon dude you're talking out of your ass here

the russian empire did not exist in 1919… is your history that poor?

and here is a quote from rosa luxembourg on the russian revolution

The basic error of the Lenin-Trotsky theory is that they too, just like Kautsky, oppose dictatorship to democracy. “Dictatorship or democracy” is the way the question is put by Bolsheviks and Kautsky alike. The latter naturally decides in favor of “democracy,” that is, of bourgeois democracy, precisely because he opposes it to the alternative of the socialist revolution. Lenin and Trotsky, on the other hand, decide in favor of dictatorship in contradistinction to democracy, and thereby, in favor of the dictatorship of a handful of persons, that is, in favor of dictatorship on the bourgeois model.

as you can read for yourself she did not consider bolshevik russia to be a dictatorship of the proletariat but a dictatorship following the bourgeois model of a handful of people. now I ask again can you actually put out an argument instead of pointing to “rejection by every contemporary socialist” and calling him names please? no need to follow such a childish argumentation style

I am not trying to pander to any sort of audience only talking about the attractiveness of kautsky and his beliefs to people today and giving my theory why. I’m also not very convinced by your line of reasoning because all you’ve said besides appealing to a number of historical figures not agreeing with him is saying he didn’t believe in the dictatorship of the proletariat which is confusing because he wrote an entire pamphlet called “the dictatorship of the proletariat” explaining how he believed in it and believed what russia was doing was not the dictatorship of the proletariat. especially weird since you included rosa luxembourg who famously considered russia to be a police state not adhering to the dictatorship of the proletariat

from my personal experience the need to collapse as you describe it stems moreso from the geopolitical position the societies of these liberal countries find themselves in moreso than the nature of their political ideology. it is in order to convince themselves of the need to continually take actions to protect their own interests and preferential position. I imagine it was probably pretty similar within nazi germany toward their opponents or within the soviet union against nazi germany. this is something I feel a lot of americans don't exactly realize. anti-americanism is not as pervasive across the world as you may be led to believe and is definitely not at the same level of hate you'll see with americans regarding china or other examples. this was especially weird to me when I first heard the song Eve of Destruction with the lyric "And think of all the hate there is in Red China" because the chinese really do not hate americans they just want to work together with them for mutual benefit. same sentiment was heard when putin gave his now famous interview with tucker carlson

this is unfair, during his time kautsky was the most popular and well known marxist. that didn't change until after the october revolution