this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2025
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[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 238 points 21 hours ago (5 children)
[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 110 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

Violence really, really fucking sucks.

It may be necessary, but if there's any other option you should look to that first. If it legitimately comes to violence a lot of innocent people are going to suffer in a big way.

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 121 points 20 hours ago (3 children)

There were other options. I think those other options failed at this point in time.

[–] 100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it 5 points 9 hours ago

His spokesperson in Italy said that he meant to say "I give my heart to you" with that gesture. I mean, dude, just own it up. It's not like there would have been any repercussion.

[–] reksas@sopuli.xyz 4 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (1 children)

I wonder what he is thinking, that is odd looking face

[–] Kitathalla@lemy.lol 6 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

It's the face of effort. Dude probably doesn't get off of the computer chair very much, and lifting his arms above the 'loose hang, elbows bent, wrists resting on desk' takes a lot of effort, and thus the grimace from struggling.

[–] noobdoomguy8658@feddit.org 1 points 3 hours ago

Nah, it's just drugs. I mean, I think Elon Musk strikes me as a person who'd love to have the... for the lack of a better word, "courage" to perform the Nazi salute under such circumstances when actually totally sober, but a guy that had to fake Path of Exile 2 success is simply not gonna throw a Nazi salute on stage, even in front of people he sees as supports and loyalists.

I wonder if that absolutely bizarre specimen has been truly sober in last years. Or ever, if we count being high up your own ass as an altered state.

[–] Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone 10 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

Why haven't i seen this side by side with Nazis? Or him put in the rally or along side Hitler etc?

These all seem like simple edits

[–] reksas@sopuli.xyz 12 points 12 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone 7 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Well that's a little on the nose isn't it.

It's a weird salute he's doing there that guy on the left.

Some kind of awkward excitement reaction i guess.

[–] illi@lemm.ee 5 points 11 hours ago

His heart really goes to his people, doesn't it?

[–] Meltrax@lemmy.world 25 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

Yeah, I feel like violence is evangelized online in odd ways.

The class that suffers the most in violent uprisings is the lowest class. By orders of magnitude. For every member of the bourgeois that is taken down, tens or hundred or thousands of every day people are injured or killed.

[–] endeavor@sopuli.xyz 6 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

Take it from us who dont live in a country built on liebensraum created by genociding the native population and has spent all its VERY short existance not knowing tyranny or how to separate church, state and private companies.

Classless society leads to death of millions and classed society. Lowest class loves killing lowest class. Once the preceived opressors run out more will be found. People wanting violence want it for selfish reason. The guy calling to kill all landlords today will be raping your small daughter in a state organized torture dungeon tomorrow. Yes its graphic, yes this is what you get when you want mass violence, stop pretending otherwise and buying into propaganda of evil people.

This is how it has always been, and always will be. Slow social reforms is the way to get what you want. Violence just creates more violence.

[–] noobdoomguy8658@feddit.org 1 points 2 hours ago

I agree with your anti-violence stance, but can't ignore the reasoning behind it.

I don't believe there's some special class that either accumulates or breeds violence. I don't believe that the "lowest" class, whatever that might be, is fixed on killing its kin. The people ruling Nazi Germany certainly weren't the "lowest" class when they were making their impactful decisions, many of which killed members of other classes, not theirs.

Neither Trump nor Musk are "low" class, yet they tend to hold the more absurd and anti-human views, separating people into worthy and not-so-much and believing they can make destinies.

There are dangerous people in our world, which are often attracted by power, often any sort of power they can rise to. Violence included.

Regardless, violence only breeds violence, for so many reasons that no comment can hold. Violence traumatizes and creates examples and "Why can't I, too?.." questions, etc.

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 21 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago) (1 children)

But it's already happening. They're already suffering.

[–] Meltrax@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago

"They" (we) aren't being killed en masse.

[–] StaticFalconar@lemmy.world 17 points 19 hours ago

Peace as a choice is only possible when the option of violence exists.

[–] refurbishedrefurbisher@lemmy.sdf.org 17 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (2 children)

To be fair, both Ghandi and MLK Jr. showed that there is an alternative to violence that can be very effective in gaining support.

That being said, I do think the Black Panthers/Malcom X were very instrumental in the civil rights movement. I think the leadership saw two options: work with MLK Jr. or deal with the Black Panthers.

Of course, the FBI, amongst other groups in power at the time were able to successfully thwart MLK Jr.'s attempt at educating people about class consciousness. MLK Jr. wasn't just fighting for equal rights among racial lines, but also economic lines.

Hell, Jesus Christ was able to start an entire religion based in nonviolent protest based around class consciousness. Of course, that religion has since been perverted, but the point still stands.

[–] EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone 36 points 16 hours ago

MLK and the Civil Rights Movement have been majorly white-washed since they happened. That narrative is a big reason why protests since have been largely ineffectual in the US.

MLK supported the Black Panthers and Malcolm X and said that the only reason that he didn't do anything more than the sit-ins and such was because that was already illegal and anything more could get them all jail time. And he was still seen as being just as violent as they made BLM out to be.

The Million Man March was seen as a threat of violence by white America. If he could get a million people to mobilize in the capital and shut down the entire city, what else could he get them to do?

Also, civil rights were only put into law after a full-on week of violence that burned down entire sections of cities and did millions in property damage. Years of protests led to flowery words. A week of riots saw the bills written, voted on, and codified into law.

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 19 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

They only worked with the threat of violence if they failed.

And they've both been WAY watered down in modern tellings....

[–] vin@lemmynsfw.com 3 points 13 hours ago

Gandhi could grind the whole subcontinent to halt just by asking. It was economic violence in a sense.

[–] limer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

In all fairness there are non violent support roles

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 49 points 20 hours ago

Somebody has to build the drones and c4 kits

[–] Skyrmir@lemmy.world 8 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

It's not that people die commiting acts of violence, it's that people minding their own business or just trying not to be violent, also end up violently dismembered with their families.

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 9 points 15 hours ago

Supporting the violence is participating in it. Maybe you're on the "good" side but still. If you work a normal 9-5 go home shoot the shit with your buds and volunteer at a homeless shelter.... You're still not a good person when your job is making bombs getting shipped to Israel.

[–] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 18 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

The problem with violence is that the bad guys are usually better at violence.

[–] garbagebagel@lemmy.world 7 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I wouldn't say better at violence, just better equipped.

[–] masquenox@lemmy.world 8 points 16 hours ago

I wouldn’t say better at violence, just better ~~equipped~~ funded.

FTFY.

[–] Brkdncr@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

Not true. Japan was definitely the Bad Guys. US was able to commit more violence then they were.

[–] gibmiser@lemmy.world 3 points 20 hours ago

Woo hoo...? I guess!

[–] Loss@sh.itjust.works 0 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

The US wasn't the good guys against Japan. They just were slightly less bad for about 5 years before and 6 months after.

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

So you don't know your history.

[–] rammer@sopuli.xyz 2 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Or they know that there weren't any "Good guys" around.

The Japanese war crimes are well known in the West. The US ones are routinely glossed over or ignored.

Wars don't determine who was right. They determine who's left.

[–] endeavor@sopuli.xyz 2 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

There are no evidence of US war crimes even coming close to Japan, Germany or Russia at the time or superceding it. Where are the tens of millions of bodies, rammer? Where are they?

[–] Loss@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

You're joking, right? Nazi Germany wishes they could commit genocide in the scale of the early US.

[–] endeavor@sopuli.xyz 0 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

True, but that was long ago. If you're gonna play that game we need to delete every single country except for like a few.

[–] Loss@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Not really, most other countries revolted and enshrined human rights,and even started to try reparations for their crimes. The US doubled down by medically experimenting on the black population after WWII.

[–] endeavor@sopuli.xyz 0 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

And what of the countries that continued to make a bunch of genocide happen? That happened to be communist? And still are? And still are killing people? They are a bigger problem than what us was.

[–] Loss@sh.itjust.works 1 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

We're on .world, which has covered up the Israeli genocide of Palestinians and is about to require all posts be congruent with the US government standard of facts; as such you've reached the end of the discussion that can be done on this instance. I'm happy to continue on a better instance not run in a fascist country, or in private messaging.

[–] Bluetreefrog@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

and is about to require all posts be congruent with the US government standard of facts

OOTL here. What's happened?

[–] endeavor@sopuli.xyz 0 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

As someone from ex communist nation where 20% were genocided I acknowledge that america is built upon genocide that inspired the 20th century and has definetly done some pretty bad things nobody should do. But I firmly believe, and will not budge from my belief, that making 20th century america out to be as bad as communist china, camboida, north korea, russia, germany and many others is anything but extremely out of touch extremist left brainrot built upon russian propaganda. Its like saying "That guy who stole from girl scouts is literally as bad as those mass murderers and rapists."

[–] Loss@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

You weren't a part of a communist nation.

[–] endeavor@sopuli.xyz 1 points 3 hours ago

You aren't part of a capitalist one then.