For posting all the anonymous reactionary bullshit that you can't post anywhere else.
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: I am now concerned about Guantanamo Bay.
What do we gain by mocking people calling for immediate and direct political action against reactionary capitalism? This is the leftist version of "IF YOU DIDN'T VOTE FOR KAMALA YOU DON'T GET TO COMPLAIN"
These are not serious people. If this was happening in a Blue way nobody in /r/WitchesVsPatriarchy would care. The US doens't need a concentration camp to do ethnic cleansing. Trump is simply politically inept. The Blue guys have been the best ethnic cleansers by numbers on the board. This is reacting to an aesthetic that is needed by the Trump admin not only because they want to but also because of a lack of skill in political operations, see the Columbia debacle.
The Blue guys are so much better at managing the gross shit in the empire without making people feel like they're looking at the icky chapters of the history books. They don't deport people in treat season. They don't deport people in ways that are highly visible with glossy press releases. They don't deport people in ways that are visceral by finding them in schools or churches. They balance it out by compromising that some people can be the chosen, the Dreamers, and stay (but their parents and family members....). Ultimately the Blue team deports way more people, and yet not once during the Blue times did these people ever float this idea.
Biden and Kamala literally reoriented the Democratic party's immigration policies around the policies of Trumps first term!
Biden was literally playing caravan chicken during election season. Caravan chicken is a geopolitical move where if the timing for a new wave in the "immigration crisis" is bad, American Presidents will send humanitarian aid, and cut deals with South and Central American countries to prevent caravans from forming. Once the bad political timing is passed domestically, the problems of extraction that lead to mass migration can continue without subsidy.
Also Guantanamo Bay has been this country's horror show for decades now, and multple pre-Trump 2024 "good guy" Blue guys could have stopped the literally a SA torture dungeon our country runs on contested land of a country that we have literally been embargoing to death for 40+ years.
Not only that but concentration camps including Guantanamo Bay have been a part of this country for decades. This isn't new. Anyone who thinks this is new doesn't understand the problem, and is therefore ill equipped to advocate for a solution.
These are Blue reactionaries reacting to the news and just like the last time Trump was president on January 19th 2029 these people will be out to brunch. Taking them at their word and attempting to "join" forces will only have you looking like a clown in whatever hat they decide on wearing this time, only to fade into obscurity as they get bored at the fact that their LARP didn't magically change the world. No tool of "liberal democracy" can fix this because this IS liberal democracy.
In short there was never anything to gain in the first place.
To be fair: hexbear is in it's own delightful world. Lol
first_time?.jpg
Yeah, bots, state actors, or [ate the onion] folks, when they all sound and act the same it's so hard to tell the difference. I feel sad cuz in my estimation (based on my meatspace interactions with real actual caring (really!) lib-assed friends and family) that 9/10 times it's really just someone who believes the propaganda
That's a whole lot of bullshit to avoid doing any political work with people who don't already perfectly agree with you. It is exactly the way libs think about vote shaming. Are you an ultra?
The only way any sort of revolutionary movement will happen in this country is if it can find people in political distress like this and activate them on a correct political line. You are literally mocking people who are saying "I don't know what to do about this, is there some way we can organize non-electoral resistance to American fascism?" because of what you assume they said and did in the past - it's not like you're actually verifying they're the same people. You're just doing armchair shit.
My brother in christ, what political work are you doing with LARPers on
?
This is
, this isn't "political work". Political work happens in the real world outside of anonymous message boards.
https://old.reddit.com/r/WitchesVsPatriarchy/comments/1id9fsw/trump_is_sending_30000_migrants_to_guantanamo_bay/m9xfa84/
But you do have people pledging to show up at useless protests, being told "They're not going to do anything except put your face in a fascist database" and still saying shit like "I don't care about the consequences, what else can you do??"
A lot of these people aren't lost causes, they're lost opportunities. Their consciousness is butting up against the aperture of their politics.
We may be on the outside of a walled garden but it still feels like a failing on the left's part
They never were opportunities! You're not fucking organizing a "resistance" on
let alone 
. That's not how these things work!
Have you completely lost the plot? This is an even lamer and tamer redux than 2016 for fucks sake. We've been in this story. We know how it ends. Nothing has changed with these people!
I'm talking about the people saying these things. I'm not suggesting we set up a plywood booth on a subreddit. Geez.
Yeah so your argument is that 'we' shouldn't set up a booth because it's pointless aesthetics, but their booths are what?
Are you having a bad day or something? You're being super aggressive and reading everything I say in the most uncharitable terms possible.
I'm being super aggressive because I have ADHD and I am frustrated because I am trying to understand practically what you mean and how it makes sense. I still don't understand how these arguments don't boil down to online posting.
My problem is that many leftists here cannot see past the base of the Rachet party. Would some of these people like socialism? Yes sure. Would some of these people fight with us? yes sure. However the majority of these people are fine with returning to the status quo antecedent where we had a Democrat President running the human grinder of capitalist imperialism. In as much when they "fight with us", they are going to stop at the first available opportunity.
You aren't going to convince these people en-masse to become committed to the cause. They have neither the will to fight, nor to educate themselves. Nor have they been kicked down by life enough to see the Democrats as another foot to the ribs. They're good with good enough because good enough feels fine to them personally. To them politics and being political is a treat.
All I'm saying is that it's sad to see people who are so ripe for radicalization that they're willing to throw themselves on the gears when they know it won't change anything. I'm not arguing with anything you're saying.
They're posting that they're willing. The gears are there. The gears have been there. They haven't been throwing themselves in the least. The lib moron who had 2 "Molotov cocktails" that were made from nips threw himself into the gears. He was stupid, he was ineffective, he didn't know what he was doing, but he threw himself in to the gears. These people are posting.
okay my bad
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Look at the actual things people are saying in there, about looking for opportunities for real world action. They aren't a posting brigade - they want to do actually do something. People who were formally Dem partisans moving into real political work is exactly what we want.
At best it's stochastic propaganda of the deed in extremely low risk ways, at worst it's
thoughts and prayers.
These people pretend they can be Lepa Radić without organization and risky active struggle against a fascist state. They think they'll win the Hunger Games lottery and be the hero then go back to their own lives. They're invoking Orange Alternative at worst and "The French Resistance" (which is a lulzy thing that glosses over a ton of shit if you actually know what the French Resistance was) at best.
And for what? To hope one day they can vote a Blue guy in? So they can stop all this and go back to brunch not caring about the same people they pretend to care about.
Even on our beloved
we are simply just 
any resulting political action is coincidental because it requires the ultimate sacrifice of 
I'm not talking about posting at them. People who talk and think exactly like this are going to be extremely important to actual real world organizing.
That hysteria is actionable. We can say - you are right to be freaked out. But it's pointless to sit around pulling your hair out when you can join an organization taking action.
I think this is the take. It's gonna be really fucking annoying to work with former libs-turning-leftists in real time, but the conditions are only going to create more of them and we really do need the numbers.
I mean it's obvious we need the numbers, but what we need more than that is a way to ban them from their local brunch places. I doubt that we can reorient these people in 4 years to understand that Democrats are also the enemy.
The party diehards and brunch libs will ride that shit into the canyon floor like Wile E Coyote, yeah. But there are a lot of other people who have been openly hung out to dry or had their friends and relatives killed directly or inderectly by the polite fascists, or who are afraid they're next to have their lives ruined by poverty. Many former vote blue people are now disillusioned, beginning to understand the real horror of their circumstances, and desperate for answers.
"Not perfect" here meaning "people who would be totally fine with this shit if it was happening under a competent democrat who did it more subtly".
Who cares? Who cares why? They are looking for political leadership that only socialists can provide. Let's take advantage of the moment and make then comrades. That's what political organizing is.
They don't actually want that tho, they want to go back to brunch.
How do you know? I'm so fucking sick of this anti-politics rhetoric. I've actually been organizing people exactly like this the past few months, and most of them really do want to do something.
I haven't been organizing in the recent months because I've been swamped at work. But I did throughout 2016 to 2024 with a few months off at times. I agree with you these people really want to do something. But their understanding of doing something is buying a product which is what has been sold to them by the
morons. My local orgs (PSL, DSA, various too small to mention mutual aid groups) spent a ton of time attempting to educate these people trying to get them to understand that it's not buying a product at all. Ultimately for every person that stayed as a comrade, 10 had dropped by the time 2021 came around.
I'm not going to stop advocating for political education (and as soon as my personal shit stops being a mire I'm going back to local orgs). I'm also not taking these people at their word because I've been around the block before. I wasn't not a gullible then, and I'm not gullible now. The reality is that these people don't know what they're talking about, and you can tell based on how they talk. Frankly this is the shitty part of organizing work, because you're essentially becoming these people's priest for a short period of time, until they choose another god. If you have a different experience good on you, but as an in house conversation most political organizers especially socialists often complain about how fickle new people can be.
And it's actually a detriment to many small orgs in big population centers because you're swarmed by a bunch of people who are left flirting but effectively libs who are seeking to rid themselves of their moral/political anxiety about the country they live in. This leads to chaos and destroys org discipline in objectives and goals because you have a cacaphony of noobs who have their own quirky unique ideas (which are neither quirky nor unique) and a lot of conviction that nobody has tried them.
In fact Biden's election basically cratered an entire SALT chapter in my state within 2 years. Also another problem is that every national org needs to keep it's eyes on the prize, because every time they talk about China there's a fucking struggle session where the noobs revolt.
Citation needed.
They're perfectly fine with following Democrats.
It's exactly what they're saying? Please cite your shit.
These are some of the wonderfully insightful comments of the OP of that thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1hh03i5/comment/m2nwzgp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1iave2v/comment/m9emjr2/
Love me some stale memes from 2016 about Mango Mussolini, and Orange Guy Cheeto Brain
This is a post from the top rated comment where she says that we need to convince Democrats by calling them
https://www.reddit.com/r/NonBinary/comments/1hnmyey/comment/m43norm/
There's a wonderful personal appeal from the poster of the second highest rated comment (this is not sarcastic good on that person):
https://www.reddit.com/r/YesAmericaBad/comments/1hxmdvt/comment/m6b9w4b/
So point to you.
The person who said they are harboring a trans person also pretends that Trump wasn't democratically elected
https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1i9dzyd/comment/m91q3k9/
Most of the top rated posters in that thread also post to /r/TwoXPreppers which is lulzy as a political valence because it's just libertarian-ism but for her. I'm actually too lazy to follow these accounts back to what they were posting in October, but given what I've seen in just scrolling I'm not hopeful.
Overall this is a waste of my time and it's a wash, and it should really be up to you to pluck out the redditors that you think show revolutionary potential or whatever.
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Fundamentally misunderstanding what I'm talking about. I am not going to wade into the posting trenches. The point I'm making is that discourse like this from liberals should not be mocked - these people are closer to us than they've ever been. If we attack them for being Dem voters, we aren't inviting them into spaces (REAL PHYSICAL SPACES) where we can develop their politics and give them real work to do.
When a lib says "what can I dooooo" we don't say "stfu you wouldn't care if it was your team", we say "you come to this organizing meeting and then you canvass door to door"
Here's where you've lost me. I literally do not believe in the idea that you can "guide" a lib that you do not know personally, to a "real world space" where they "change" in a person to person site, sure you can do that as a TikTok influencer and all forms of broadcast media, but poster to poster is silly.
If this to you means posting "Hey join your local PSL/DSA/whatever" sure fine "we" should do that, but "we" should call a spade a spade and acknowledge that that thread is full of garbage. This is an in-house conversation, I'm not doing ideological policing of the redditors. I'm not even tapping the glass. I'm posting. If you see my other reply about "real world organizing", this kind of attention is cheap and doesn't last in the volume that you're seeing it. My personal count is 10 for 1 over the last 8-ish years. For every 10 left flirting libs that walk thru the door, 1 becomes a comrade, the rest go to brunch at different intervals for different reasons, and a lot of them went to brunch when the Blue guys were back in town.
Then you need to be a better organizer, because I do a hell of a lot better than that.
Congrats on bucking the trend. DSA literally shed ~15k members during the Biden years, which is actually higher than what I've personally I have seen.
Because they're libs and mostly just on-paper members who do no real work and are not expected to.. Why would you stick with one group of do nothing liberals over another? PSL does not have this issue and bucks the trend every day. A string political line, centralized strategy for outreach, regular party work for all comrades, and thorough internal education keep folks in the organization.
PSL also doesn't report membership numbers.