this post was submitted on 16 Mar 2025
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If you think everything that's happening in Europe and the US is perpetrated by the Russians, that's honestly more of an easy way of pretending an 'other' outside of the country is responsible, not anyone in the country itself.
Wilders, despite also supporting Russia, is a 100% Dutch phenomenon (starting with Fortuyn at least). These types will use any power they have to attain as much power as they can get; in the Netherlands (with the Dutch electoral system), that's a bit more difficult than in Hungary. To attain more power, it's a good idea to have some scapegoat you can make people scared of and rail against constantly: muslims, asylum seekers, recently trans folks. You don't need 'Russia' to explain these authoritarian attacks on minorities.
It's a form of scapegoating itself, actually, despite there still actually being truth to Russian disinformation and destabilisation campaigns, of course. At the same time, it overinflates Russian abilities, though Romania is worrying.
I disagree with the 'Russian conspiracy' nonsense anyway, especially when it comes to Trump. I suppose that makes me 'a complete idiot'.
Putin's control over Trump, Musk, and entire world-wide rise of the far-right is well-established, with the evidence in the wide open. Trump and Musk had numerous personal meetings with Putin during the Biden administration, and it is clear the these two FOREIGN Sociopathic Oligarchs with no loyalty or patriotism to America, have partnered up with the most prolific traitor in American history. They dont see the potential for greatness and morality that America has always promised, they only see a rich, fat, lazy nation that will be easy to exploit for their own personal benefits.
Putin and Russia are obviously behind all of this, and denying it will only make it easier for them to progress further, and eventually succeed.
To be honest, the entire idea that you could use a loose cannon like Trump as an agent is pretty stupid by itself. The man doesn’t have a clue in the morning what he’ll be saying in the evening. The ‘evidence’ is one guy, as far as I’ve gathered, but feel free to make the case.
Outside of ‘the evil Russians rule the world’, there are plenty of reasons for the way Trump is acting. I think what we’re seeing is more a return (or an attempted return, anyway) of 19th/early 20th century thinking in spheres of influence, where Trump thinks it’s alright that Russia ‘gets’ Ukraine as part of its sphere of influence, if America gets Canada and Greenland. Whether it’ll actually work this way is another question, of course (I have doubts that it will). We don’t know how Trumps presidency will develop in the end, though. I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump actually will end up getting mad at Putin if he doesn’t play by his rules.
Note that I’m not denying Russia attempts to disrupt western political processes, just that they are so murderously successful to even have an American president as their puppet. That the US has elected such an idiot president, is entirely their own fault (as is Wilders in the Netherlands).
The point is to destabilise. And a grandiose idiot like trump is very useful indeed on that front.
You don't understand Putin's strategy. Controlling America would be great, but he doesn't have to control it, he just has to throw it into chaos, so that its outsized influence in the world is destroyed. Then they can establish a new world order in which Sociopathic Oligarchs run the world instead nations. If they succeed, every Sociopathic Oligarch becomes his own little King, free from the restrictions of his nation's laws. That's why every billionaire is on board, and why we should prohibit billionaires, if we even survive this.
In 1997, Alexander Dugin published Foundations in Geopolitics, which has become the Russian playbook. It is taught at the Russian Officer's School, and Putin keeps a copy in his office. Dugin is a highly influential advisor to Putin. His daughter rose to be an extremely influential member of the Russian Intelligence agency. She was killed by a car bomb few years ago, which as meant for her father, who was saved when he went back to retrieve his umbrella.
Foundations of Geopolitics describes how Russia can become the dominant world influence without firing a shot. Each geographical region of the world has its own plan. For America, the plan is:
Sound familiar? It perfectly describes the growing divisions in this country in the 21st century. How can you call this a coincidence?
Of particular interest is the very first line: "Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States..." What does that mean? What "special forces" had Russia planted in America in 1997, when this book was published. We now know that the FBI was aware of Russian moles in America as early as 2000, but these people were quietly placed in sensitive positions to get access to information. They weren't the kind of "special forces" intended to sow chaos.
OTOH, Trump was a friend to the Russians since 1987, when he visited SOVIET Russia, and was given the designation Agent Krasnov. Soon after that visit, he began parroting Russian propaganda talking points and laundering money for Russian Oligarchs/Mobsters. It is likely that Agent Krasnov was at least one of the "special forces" referred to.
Now he is president again, and this time he came into office prepared with a plan - Project 2025. Our government is being systematically and recklessly dismantled, and we are quickly careening toward chaos. The day the first Social Security payment is missed, which will be soon, America will come apart at the seams.
It all fits the plan for America in The Foundation of Geopolitics. We saw how he was a supplicant to Putin during his first term, and we know Trump and Musk were both in close contact with Putin during the Biden years. We know that nearly everyone in Trump's orbit during his first term (Flynn, Manafort, et al) were so involved with the Russians that many went to prison for what essentially amounts to treason. All of that, and much more, and you still think Trump's connections to Putin/Russia are doubtful?
Polish your Critical Thinking Skills, and hone your Google-Fu. You need to do more research.
You need to talk to people in a less condescending manner. I explicitly asked for more information (‘feel free to make the case’) and laid out an alternative explanation, there’s nothing ‘uncritical’ about that. I haven’t a clue what ‘Google-Fu’ is supposed to mean. I get my information from reputable Dutch and German newspapers.
You’re putting words in my mouth, but I will believe current developments in the US are the result of the Russians if a causative relationship has been established.
Again, I don’t doubt these are the aims of the Russian government, but Russian campaigns are probably fuelling processes that were going on in the US anyway. In the Netherlands, Russians don’t really need to do anything as indigenous racist elements like Wilders have it easy enough as is to harnass these underlying discomforts with ‘the other’, whatever form they may take. Attacks against Turkish immigrants (‘guest workers’) happened in the seventies, there always was an underlying current.
This is all of a completely different order than the claim I’ve been hearing often, that Trump is a literal Putin agent, and I don’t buy it. The agent Krasnov claim came from one guy, as far as I know. Not very convincing, but this what I was actually referring to when I said ‘feel free to make a case’, as I haven’t found this to be very convincing - and I especially haven’t seen convincing evidence.
I didn’t, as I’m Dutch and I dislike following American news. I’ve heard it indeed seems to be the case that Russian narratives work well in the Trump camp. Still, I’m quite sure that if Russia starts following a foreign policy that isn’t compatible with what the Trump camp wants, they’ll drop them as quickly as they did Europe.
Well I made my case. You admit you don't follow American news closely, and much of your opinion is based on your own speculation.
While one ex-KGB agent recently revealed Trump's code name, numerous Russians have described a long pattern of manipulation of Trump, starting with his well-documented trip to Russia in 1987.
You keep insisting that your perspective that there is little Russian influence on Trump and others in his administration is simply contradicted by actual facts.
Google-Fu is an American idiom for being proficient with Google searches (derived from Kung Fu).
As for being condescending, as an American whose name will probably appear on the MAGANazi detainment lists at some point, I don't have any patience for people who are downplaying Trump's breath-taking treason, and I won't apologize for it.
Considering you're not giving any actual evidence for much of what you're writing, that's speculation as far as I'm concerned as well.
I'm not downplaying anything, I'm saying I'm not buying an oft-repeated narrative, and I'm still not buying it. And, in any case, I don't expect you to apologise, I expect people I'm responding to in a polite manner to be vaguely polite back. I've not doubted your intellectual capabilities just for disagreeing with me.
You're starting to sound like one more far-right apologist, offering only soft arguments against fascism, while carefully allowing Russia to escape blame for their obvious nefarious behavior, despite years of open evidence of it. We see this a lot in America, although yours was more subtle than we usually see, because American MAGAs are fucking stupid, and can't navigate subtlety.
You are the one who offered no sources for your allegations that Russia isn't really leading the growing wave of far-right activism across the world. I offered two solid sources for my basic argument, and invited you to do more research. It's not my job to hold your hand. If you truly want to know more, which seems increasingly doubtful, you have Google on your phone and computer.
Yes, I'm far-right. Whatever.
I don't know what you are, but if you are going to let Russia off the hook for what is their OBVIOUS geopolitical strategy, people are going to suspect that of you. Patriotic, non-MAGA Americans no longer have the luxury of denying the truth of Russia's manipulation. Here, we are in a Civil War, and citizens have to take a side, and if you arent with us, you're with the enemy.
It may not be that dire in your country, but it wasn't dire in our country either, until it was. You would do yourself and your nation a service by getting on board with resistance now, before its too late. Russia is closer to you than America, and when they have dismantled America, you will be directly at their mercy.
Unless that's what you want.
I look at Trump having meetings with Putin where none of Trump's advisors were allowed to attend, no transcripts were published, and I think they even used only Russian translators.
So either Trump is controlling Putin, or Putin is controlling Trump. I know which way to bet.
I look at Trump barely being able to utter a coherent English sentence, and I doubt he could control even himself.
It's both. Dividing western societies is the declared foreign policy goal in Russia. Working with right-wing demagogues is the most effective way to achieve this. That doesn't mean said demagogues wouldn't be a problem otherwise, but it's definitely being amplified.
That's pretty much my view. The extreme right in Europe and the US also forms a collaborative network itself, though, with events like CPAC. I'd be more afraid of the US than of Russia, honestly.
For the past 10 years would I have to disagree. US conservatives didn't give much of a shit about what was going on in Europe, while Putin scored many wins strategically working with right-wing groups throughout Europe, culminating in Brexit, and no doubt setting the stage for the invasion of Ukraine. (Which was supposed to be over within a day by toppling the "nazi" government in Kyiv, let's not forget.)
For the future, we'll see. This is definitely a worrying development. It seems half of the US political establishment and about a third of the populace is determined to treat us as enemies simply because it fits their internal propaganda, no matter how much damage it does to US foreign policy. This means that bargaining is useless, and it seems at least that most European governments have internalized this, even though they may hope this state of affairs will pass.