this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2023
83 points (92.8% liked)

World News

32329 readers
805 users here now

News from around the world!

Rules:

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

China is under no obligation to dissuade the Euro-centric world from a conspiracy theory narrative, and it has been moving itself into that posture for some time now. The US and Europe have been rattling sabres for years now, and that's well after a full century of humiliating China. If the West wants China to respond to their spurious conspiracy claims, they're going to have make a lot more effort to show good faith. As it stands now, if I were Chinese, I wouldn't trust the West within 100 miles of China.

[–] Syldon@feddit.uk 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

China is under no obligation to dissuade the Euro-centric world from a conspiracy theory narrative

We have just had a world pandemic. Common sense states that we should be looking into that.

after a full century of humiliating China.

Humiliating China in what way?

[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Humiliating China in what way?

If this is a good faith question, I highly recommend looking into modern Chinese history, starting with the 1800s. Europe brought China to its knees. Massive EuroAmerican fortunes were amassed through getting 40% of Chinese people addicted to opium, Forbes among them. The Chinese attempt to protect their people by outlawing opium was met with orientalism by the merchants who convinced the British navy to attack China and force it to allow the drug trade. The Opium Wars is how Britain ended up occupying Hong Kong and how Europeans were immune to Chinese law in all the major port cities.

When the PLA joined with the KMT to fight off the Japanese, the KMT then turned on the PLA and massacred as many as they could. The PLA eventually won the hearts and minds of the Chinese people and through a people's war and through conversion of thousands of KMT soldiers to the PLA defeated the KMT who ran away to Taiwan. The British then stepped in and prevented the PLA from continuing to pursue the KMT because the British wanted the KMT to be their puppet regime. And that's how Taiwan got into the mess it's in.

The West spent a century dominating China, eventually even imposing tarrifs on behalf of China on goods that passsed through China, but all the tarrifs were collected by the Europeans! China finally stood up in 1949, but it has not finished pushing European influence out of its region. So the idea that the WHO should be trusted to be impartial when literally everything the West has done is weaponized against its enemies is laughable.

[–] Syldon@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I am not going to listen to arguments based on events from 200 years ago. My family were being starved in Ireland back then.

China was a closed nation for a very long time. Any developments in China are down to China themselves. Do you even know the term of the Cold War?

There were no friendly arrangements between the west and China until very recent. The hand of friendship has been extended due to the collapse of Russia and the west recognising the futility of being aggressive for the sake of being aggressive. China also opened it borders, something unthinkable before the USSR collapsed. Since the cooling of relations between the west and China, China has abused that hand of friendship in many areas. Is it any wonder that hostilities are building up again?

[–] TheBroodian@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am not going to listen to arguments based on events from 200 years ago.

Enjoy remaining incredibly stupid and easily manipulated for the rest of your life.

[–] Syldon@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Why thank you very much. Please enjoy the next conversation you have where you present many other arguments with absolutely no foundation or basis.

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Please enjoy the next conversation you have where you present many other arguments with absolutely no foundation or basis.

Says the sinophobic weeb that accuses others of being "bots" because you don't agree with them.

[–] Syldon@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You missed the racist party out. You know the bit where everyone is racist, who points out the gaslighting Chinese bots proliferate on the internet.

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I didn't have to. I'm only talking about you in particular being a racist piece of shit accusing other people of being bots, you silly weeb.

[–] Syldon@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A bot who is so embarrassed about his origins that he has to resort to insults. It is beneath you, honestly. I thought you were much more expensive than this.

[–] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago (6 children)

You're diluting your own accusations of calling people bots by arguing with the people you are claiming are bots.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] Egon@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

with absolutely no foundation or basis.

Except for the historical facts which they presented you with, and the reason for giving that context? Each of their claims is basic history.
Do you not believe that what happened in our past shapes our present? Do you just think everything happens disconnected from the other?
So far you are the one who have yet to provide any basis for your claims. The other user gave a succint argument as to why China has reason to distrust western institutions and your response has been "nuh uh".
Do better.

[–] Syldon@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do better.

Lol my only purpose now is to wind you up. This stopped being a feasible conversation a long time ago when you tried associating the racist card as a valid argument.

It is very obvious you are a bot. You don't even realise you are answering three threads of the same conversation simultaneously.

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Lol my only purpose now is to wind you up.

You're gonna have to step up your game then. So far you're just a very basic run-of-the-mill chud pigpoop

This stopped being a feasible conversation a long time ago when you tried associating the racist card as a valid argument.

Dude, you're being racist, it's been explained to you how, you choose to keep being racist.
"Oh now you're playing the racist card." There's a real easy way to stop getting that card played - Stop being racist

It is very obvious you are a bot.

I thought you wanted to wind me up? If I'm an unthinking machine, how are you going to do that?
If you think I am a bot, why are you engaging with me? What a sad life you must have.
Your logic seems unfounded, I'm starting to think YOU might be a machine :thonk:

You don't even realise you are answering three threads of the same conversation simultaneously.

No, I do. I just wanna point out to you how you're being a dickhead. You're just being a dickhead everywhere. Do you really think there is a LLM advanced enough to carry this kind of conversation, but also not advanced enough to distinguish three different threads? How stupid are you? I know no people stupid enough to make such faults in logic, you must be a bot squidward-nochill

[–] Syldon@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Cya later bot. This was fun. 9 separate replies now. This is a new game to me, I may do this again.

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I thought your purpose was to wind me up, bot now you're running away?
I wish I could have as smooth a brain as yours. You think you've got something, and the second you get the slightest amount of pushback, you run away crying, rather than in any way interrogate your own worldview. It must be nice to be thoughtless like you.
I does sadden me though, because it's obvious you really think you have something here. Does your eyes glaze over when text crosses 120 chracters, or is there another reason you cannot comprehend what has been communicated to you?

[–] VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

See, this is why so many instances want to defederate from hexbear. The giant pig shit image, the immediate ad-hominem jump to racism or insults when you receive the slightest pushback to your ideas, the overt hostility to all other points of view, assuming everyone else is talking in bad faith, and the meme-y 4chan-like in culture that's forced on everyone else. I get being mad someone is calling you a bot, because that's not an argument either, but the initial replies were like that, too.

At least freagle made an actual argument with historical context and such, and even though I think things from the 1800s aren't an excuse to never work with the west again, especially with international incidents like this, they made a point and supported it earnestly. So it's not like hexbear is this bad, but damn, I get it sometimes.

[–] Egon@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The giant pig shit image, the immediate ad-hominem jump to racism or insults

There was nothing immediate about it. As I've already once described to you, I came to this thread after accusations of chinese bots were being thrown out. I came to this thread after other users had taken the time to explain their reasoning, which was entirely ignored.

Again, there is no assumption of racism. I've already pointed out once how incredibly racist it is to go "Well if you disagree with me, you're a chinese machine". It's sinophobic orientalism. This has been pointed out, to you as well. Stop pretending like I'm just yelling "racist" at everyone I disagree with.

This is also why most hexbear users aren't that sad you wanna defederate. You're delusional. You keep crying about "civility" and "sudden insults" as if these things come out of nowhere, despite every single interaction being like this - One of you libs starting bad-faith discussions, then crying when you're not being taken seriously.

assuming everyone else is talking in bad faith

Look thru this thread and tell me honestly that you think they're working in good faith.

At least freagle made an actual argument with historical context and such

Which wasn't responded to, instead it was derisively mocked.

and even though I think things from the 1800s aren't an excuse to never work with the west again

That wasn't their argument. Engage with the text that you're being presented, stop misrepresenting it. And if you disagree with the notion, then ARGUE AGAINST IT instead of insulting other users, then getting surprised when you're treated the same way.

they made a point and supported it earnestly.

Yeah, and it was met with bad-faith trolling. Why do you think I should take some troll seriously, just because you happen to agree with them? Civility is a two-way street, I'm not gonna validate some dickhead.

edit: Their response is yet another thoughtless trolling comment, yet you somehow take issue with me? It's pretty clear by your actions that your only real problem is that I disagree with you.

[–] eatmyass@hexbear.net 22 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I am not going to listen to arguments based on events from 200 years ago

1950 was less than 100 years ago dumbass

The hand of friendship has been extended due to the collapse of Russia and the west recognising the futility of being aggressive for the sake of being aggressive

The sino-soviet split and triangular diplomacy says what?

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (9 children)

The US is based entirely on arguments from 200 years ago, the fuck you talking about?

Your family was being starved in Ireland by the fucking English 200 years ago and Ireland is still dealing with English occupation of their land. The English also starved India, and it wasn't 200 years ago. You think that forced famine is somehow more relevant than the forced famine in Ireland? It's not. History is present now.

China was a closed nation because why? Why is China being closed bad? Why is it European right to forcibly open China? What kind of fucking argument is that?

And then to top it off you think the West gave up on being aggressive? What fucking planet do you live on because here on Earth the West is still bombing the shit out of countries, lynching national leaders in the streets, training terrorists and assassins, and violently killing and subjugating people all over the world. And you think the West extended a "friendly hand" that China has spurned. Holy shit you are fucking delusional. Read a fucking book.

load more comments (9 replies)
[–] Joncash2@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago (14 children)

People like you: I don't care about history, we're different today and you should let us do what we want.

China: go fuck yourself.

And yet people like you are shocked that's what China tells you. China's been here for thousands of years, for China 200 years is recent history. It's cute that your people were starving though, hopefully that happens to you.

load more comments (14 replies)
[–] GaveUp@hexbear.net 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Imagine somebody you dated physically and emotionally abused you for 20 years and then 10 years later they get upset that you still care about something that happened so long ago lmao

[–] st0v@lemmy.zip 12 points 1 year ago

China opened up long before the soviet union collapsed. that's just wrong.

like 20 years wrong. You really need to do some reading chief.

[–] st0v@lemmy.zip 11 points 1 year ago

it's a thing and kind of rough

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation

Common sense would dictate that we look into the cause of the pandemic. But I totally get the fear of the pointless propaganda war that would have probably come out of it.

It's beyond belief at this point how much the western press will bend any story about China into China bad.