When I read the news this morning, the first thing I did was open twitter for the first time in 2 weeks and retweet a bunch of tweets celebrating the Iranian attack on Tel Aviv. It felt cathartic and deserved, like they were finally getting what had been a long time coming and like the genocide might finally stop. And while the Iranian missile attack hasn't even done a fraction of the unimaginable destruction the Zionist entity has inflicted on any of its neighbors, there's still something gnawing at the back of my mind: "Don't ever become like them."
Israel has shown us some of the absolute worst that humanity is capable of. The cruelty and sadism even normal Israeli civilians have displayed towards the Palestinians has been appalling and shocking. But I don't want to believe that the majority of people in Israel are ontologically evil, irredeemable psychopaths, I want to believe that they are normal people at their core. The inhumane hatred they feel for the Palestinian people isn't some unique phenomenon exclusive to Jewish settlers or Republican congressmen, but something any of us could experience for another group of people under the wrong circumstances.
And while it's nowhere near that level, I can't deny that what I'm feeling right now and what I've been feeling for the past 20 months is hate. I hate Israel, I hate everything it has done and continues to do, I hate its fascist leadership, I hate how my own country's government makes me feel like I'm going insane by unconditionally supporting these rabid nazis, and I won't lie, I have developed a certain hatred for Israel's population as well. A part of me would love to see videos of Israelis being thrown out of their stolen homes and suffer even half of what they made the people of Palestine suffer. A part of me wants to see Tel Aviv razed to the ground just like the Gaza strip was.
But I don't want to be like that. Right now the damage done to Israel is negligible, but should it experience serious devastation, I do hope we can remember our humanity. Let it never get to the point where we take our families on a hill and watch other families get massacred for entertainment. Let it never get to the point where we cheer for some IDF general to get murked alongside 7 members of his family. I want to still be able to feel empathy (though not necessarily forgiveness) for people who have lost everything, even if 6 months ago they were supporting ethnic cleansing.
I don't wanna chastise anyone for joking about Tel Aviv getting nuked or for telling Israelis going "oh noo bomb shelterinos" on TikTok to pound sand. It's one thing to say that while Israel is still the dominant force and receiving unconditional support from the West. But when the point comes where the Zionist entity has been defeated (inshallah it will be soon), I hope we can restrain ourselves from indulging in cruelty and sadism. Nobody, not even Benjamin Netanyahu or Itamar Ben-Gvir, deserves having to pick up a family member's remains and stuff them in a plastic bag. Even the most despicable Zionist you can think of deserves better than what the Palestinians are going through.
Sorry for the ramble, this has been going through my mind all day. Also main I guess.
You'd get along great with them ๐
Those engaged in decolonial struggle and seeking vengeance against Nazistic colonizers are not the same as genocidal settlers.
Unless you're Palestinian or one of the many other groups the Zionist Entity is currently trying to eradicate, I personally don't even think your analysis of Zionist 'humanity' is important to even read about much less be discussed.
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My "analysis of Zionist 'humanity'"? What does that even mean?
Don't be obtuse. You know what I mean, discussing how or whether or not they're ontologically evil, how anyone else could theoretically turn into them, what Bibi does or doesn't deserve. I know you're an anti-Zionist and not arguing that they should necessarily be treated with gentle love, please don't misunderstand me there, but this is all still in relation to and with the assumption of Zionist humanity. [Further: even specifically calling them "Israelis"โwhy this choice of term when discussing "empathy" toward them?]
Again, unless you're Palestinian (etc.), I don't think it's your place to discuss this from some universal, objective view from nowhere as they are currently committing a genocide.
It's like talking about the humanity of Nazis during the Holocaust or slave masters in the US or one of the many other instances of genocidal colonization. White people love to do this shit. No. No. No.
There are, of course, lines that shouldn't be crossed but even discussing that these lines shouldn't be crossed is some kind of fucking projection. Every Palestinian I've ever met in real life, including during this time, hasn't even openly wished for the death of every Zionist, so who is this for? This is like South African Boer genocide stuff when Black South Africans are just trying to move on and live in their country in peace. Palestinians et al are in an existential struggle, which potentially doesn't involve you, they will decide their course of action for decolonization and they will be the ones to decide how to feel about and when to acknowledge Zionist humanity.
There is no equivalence between those in decolonial struggle who, through the evil cruelty of the colonizer, have ceased to view their colonizers as human and between those genocidal settlers who are actively participating in or otherwise enabling the genocidal dehumanization of those same colonized peoples.
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Yes! I agree! That's why there's no pearl-clutching in my post about October 7th victims or the hostages or whatever. My post is about my emotions and what I hope to see in myself and other online bystanders, not the people actually engaging in decolonial struggle. I just don't want my hexbear comrades to display the same kind of sadism I see when I click "translate" on a Hebrew tweet, and my emotions had me worried that I might go down that route.
(I use the term "Israelis" because I'm specifically talking to the people currently located in occupied Palestine, while "Zionist" is a political ideology that could also refer to my neighbors. I assure you it's not for the sake of sympathy.)
I will say this: Zionists are people. Slave owners were people and the Nazis were all, unfortunately, people. The humanity of these groups is not to be decided by their victims. I agree that we can and should forgive their victims if they do not recognize their oppressors as such, but we as bystanders do not have that excuse for ourselves. Also, what it actually means that they're human is a whole other discussion.
Okay, I understand that, and I do acknowledge you're not pearl clutching. But I also just simply don't think we should be policing how people respond to injury done to the Zionist Entity. I think as outsiders from the actual conflict in Palestine the most we should do is avoid sliding into antisemitism.
People wishing the destruction of the Zionist Entity and the death of Zionists could potentially be desiring something somewhat unethical from an objective perspective, I'll give you that, but given the situation I think it's very insensitive to judge them for it. You had a post about your feelings, but then Comrade Femboy said something about their feelings regarding the decolonial struggle and you were quick to create an equivalence. That's really the only thing that made me want to jump in. You probably don't even have any idea if they're Palestinian or have Palestinian family. It's not your place to be regulating other's feelings about this, even on this silly bear site.
All right, that's fair. I retract any insinuations in that regard.
I disagree about this, but I get where you're coming from. Yes, they're technically human beings but they lost their claim to humanity, in my view. Those who participate and enable these truly extremist and horrific acts have lost their sense of humanity, and those in struggle against them as well as those in solidarity with those struggling may have to acknowledge this in order to be successful. They dehumanized the oppressed and in the very act dehumanized themselves in a potentially more disgusting way because it was done willingly. You're not dealing with a normal human being anymore. And I don't want to trivialize the context of this discussion with the reference but I think that's the point of the line: "The bourgeois are not human."
Main
Point taken about Comrade Femboy's comment. I was frustrated with the tone of their original comment which is why my response was intentionally provocative, but I suppose that is how they express their anger at an overall infuriating situation.
The technicality is all I know for sure.
Can't argue about the rest.
Hating* genociders is the same thing as doing the genocide actually