this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2025
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electoralism
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As a confirmed video watcher, hexbear's one and only, another pretty goated take from F.D.in regards to how white leftists (in actuality) and "leftists"(libs) are pretty poor at race relations and often quite literally trigger black folks in argumentation and rhetoric by madlibbing electoral candidates and movements with the same sentences otherwised used by blatant racist reactionaries. Summary for non-readers (read fellow Amerikkkans) over.
Mandami, from what I've seen, is smarter than this (maybe some of y'all should be forced to take Africana studies courses as part of re-education?), and my skepticism of him is funny for a bunch of other reasons. White leftists and liberals (collectively) are notoriously bad at navigating black skepticism, but frankly, at this point, I am of the belief that in the context of the U.S., that is gonna have to be a family issue (read black) to resolve internally, especially since the liberal brain worms seem to have successfully infiltrated us as a group.
It is why I sympathize with a lot of the non-US members who get irritated at us calling them doomers in regards to our revolutionary potential (generally talking US-Canada, but vaguely western countries all kinda apply). A lot of rebuttals I've seen towards them give the same chauvinist vibes I often see non-black leftists come into black-spaces with, which is coupled with anger at... well-earned skepticism?
Anyway, the soapbox under me is creaking, and my feet hurt.
Edit: Steps back on soapbox, I do think there is a bit too much grace for a lot of Black elders as well as a bit too much faith in electoralism, but that comes with F.D. I think he is technically right about the low information voter comment he made (how leftists really need to be careful in how they use it in black spaces), but I feel he implies that it isn't true when in my experience it generally is, but wtv, I'm just pre-empting some potential arguments I don't care for.
full comment here but i think it's not even being "pretty poor in race relations" but instead is just a total misrepresenting of class struggle that older black voters are much more likely to pick up on because white workers have repeatedly betrayed them in the past in exchange for these lofty soc dem reforms that i dont think younger black voters will have picked up on because of how younger white people are becoming much more proletarianized again.
Damnit, I was hoping to save the historic betrayal of black workers in exchange for benefits as a clapback if someone got salty and dismissive. I was excited to mention the people's party and everything.
sorry, i know all of this because i read Losurdo's book Class Struggle btw
/hj
i first started learning about this through Chunka Luta Network's work + Walter Rodney and Franz Fanon's writings, but I also sincerely believe that Losurdo has the best all in one argument for beating down on white cishet (it also incorporates the role of gender in class society too!) class reductionists who want to dismiss/downplay race/gender's role in how class is determined in modern societyYou're gonna start a fight
/hj
I haven't seen that one, so I'll add to to my backlog after I get through the literal pile of books I still want to get through (excluding my copy of Capital, which I have on indefinite hiatus)
I feel you, though it's more my practice is weak and lacking, bouncing between combatting reactionary tendencies in some people I know, combatting doomerism and adventurism in others, work, study, and sleep, I don't think I do enough to call myself an ML or commie.
Also, orgs near me seem to be focused on events that occur primarily during working hours or when I'm still asleep on weekends, while also being fairly distant.
wish i had literally any org near me, closest org afaik is over 2 hours away from me, i tried to get involved in setting up a regional DSA chapter when i was younger but the main organizers fell apart after only a few months and since it was so early in the process + none of the other people involved were even that close to me (within 30 min) i didnt feel like i could take up the torch
Having to set up a local chapter is pretty paralyzing and a lot of ground work. Especially if you're in an area lacking in pre established leftists.
Not to be a stereotype of but if the cadre aren't near you, are there any odds of creating cadre? You know how much we love book clubs around here.
im not even sure how to do that at this point. live in a very reactionary area, all my friends no longer live here (i only live here to help take care of my dad), and im honestly extremely scared of revealing im a communist to the wrong person that could hurt me and my family. like out of all my 10 closest neighbors half have trump flags
As I’m not living in the US and not completely familiar with US politics, the video felt like F.D. was hinting at a lot of recent history that I do not get.
What I think I understand is that he’s mentioning a lot of people on the left are still deeply racist but presenting as antiracist. He also mentions that a lot of white people are onboard with leftist policies until they realized it will also benefit non-white people. The background I’m missing is the part regarding the "bernie bros" and the way they were turning away black people and that older black people as well have a lot of skepticism regarding these policies as they end up getting fucked over it.
Could you educate me on both these points please?
I'm really tired so I may double back tomorrow to this, but in essence historically the American left has fairly consistently abandoned black people in almost uniformed fashion in favor of social democratic reforms with explicit carve outs to exclude black people. The easiest examples to trace are the exclusions carved into the New Deal.
This has lead to a fairly consistent skepticism for the left by black Americans, particularly in cases where it isn't black led. With Bernie's general social democratic policy, the skepticism was already there and it also met a cross roads with white-chauvinism whenever the skepticism was expressed essentially policing the historically earned skepticism with a combination of condescension, distain, and vitrol. Worker's parties and the like have historically seen black exclusion, and many of us are either vaguely or acutely aware of this phenomenon.
The exclusion isn't just throwing black people to the wolves for self benefit, but has also seen actively sabotaging movements at the inclusion of black people. If I recall correctly, there is a noticable drop in support for social welfare policies if they are phrssed in a way where there is active awareness that black people would benefit from it, even if the person being questioned would benefit as much or more.
It's beyond "fuck you I got mine," and veers into "fuck getting mine if you get yours."
Thanks for taking the time! I’ll go dig a bit on the exclusions in the new deal. Feel free to double back tomorrow if you want to add more.
Here is a quick article on how it effected housing for example (source is low-key cringe but I'm lazy rn):
https://www.history.com/articles/housing-segregation-new-deal-program
Some terms for search related to the housing parts are redlining, environmental racism, and exclusionary zoning. Housing in particular not only gives insights into the historic distrust, but also how the class war obscufates itself in America on its other fronts.
Thanks! I’ve got all I need to dig deeper now