electoralism

I'm really tired so I may double back tomorrow to this, but in essence historically the American left has fairly consistently abandoned black people in almost uniformed fashion in favor of social democratic reforms with explicit carve outs to exclude black people. The easiest examples to trace are the exclusions carved into the New Deal.

This has lead to a fairly consistent skepticism for the left by black Americans, particularly in cases where it isn't black led. With Bernie's general social democratic policy, the skepticism was already there and it also met a cross roads with white-chauvinism whenever the skepticism was expressed essentially policing the historically earned skepticism with a combination of condescension, distain, and vitrol. Worker's parties and the like have historically seen black exclusion, and many of us are either vaguely or acutely aware of this phenomenon.

The exclusion isn't just throwing black people to the wolves for self benefit, but has also seen actively sabotaging movements at the inclusion of black people. If I recall correctly, there is a noticable drop in support for social welfare policies if they are phrssed in a way where there is active awareness that black people would benefit from it, even if the person being questioned would benefit as much or more.

It's beyond "fuck you I got mine," and veers into "fuck getting mine if you get yours."

Damnit, I was hoping to save the historic betrayal of black workers in exchange for benefits as a clapback if someone got salty and dismissive. I was excited to mention the people's party and everything.

yes i should say i think of his vids of "good vs bad" through my mindset as a "decolonial ML sympathizer" lol. his bad vids are all mostly b side channel stuff like this where he wades into more explicit political stuff that i think exposes his lack of serious study into these areas. i should also say I hold him to a higher standard as someone who regularly platforms much more radical people than himself if that makes any sense.

to be more specific i wish he would connect bernie's weakness in addressing the concerns of black people to his total lack of concern for the colonial subjects outside of the US' borders, possible i missed this (im drunk rn i will admit). i think i get where you're coming from as far as the focus on electoralists being necessary for the vid, but i still think there is room to make it more clear without dipping into that territory of doing that lecturing? idk, something like "even many of you more 'principled' revolutionary socialists ignore this"? i am not black so as far as exact wording and what not i dont want to make any firm claims lol

i guess my wish is that he will utilize his incredible ability to hit white lib guilt buttons and gently nudge them in a more revolutionary, scientific socialist way if that makes sense.

I think a lot of what he had to say was more relevant toward how one should address the black electorate. Whether it's for Bernie, Zohranz or a revolutionary movement, if you want the support of these people, the white left needs to get it's shit together. I think electoral campaigns are good "practice" for doing so.

yes something that (i hope) is implicit in my comment is that these older black voters that are the majority of the black electorate are important in any revolution because they have the most first hand experience of white workers betraying black workers which is something any hopeful revolutionary in the west/the US especially must deal with in its entirety. slight pushback/clarification, i believe white revolutionaries need to learn how to identify which populations are revolutionary and where the most likely betrayals will occur to both try and mitigate those betrayals (i.e. convince as many white workers as possible not to betray for soc dem benefits) and also actually help organize the most populations with the most revolutionary potential (i.e. gain the trust of black workers).

Also, I think you'll enjoy Signifier going head to head with someone to his left here: https://youtu.be/SPOYP8LnwOU

hahaha i bet i would, deculturation is a part of the "decolonial ML" circle of people i used to follow on twitter, thanks for the link comrade!

Thanks for the link, FD really just be showing up in mad podcasts.

Edit: I saw the description, and I completely memory-holed the PF Jung appearance he did previously. I think his criticisms of engaging the Black electorate are valid and are often mistakes even more solidified leftists make, but some of his exclusions as well as general decisions come off as a tactical mix with being soc dem, and I am still unsure of the mix but would lean pretty 40/60, spitballing.

I find the idea of the PF stream gross, but did actually see it in full out of morbid curiosit,y and you can see he's basically being the non-confrontation Black guy with some degree of intention. There is something to be said about appearing on their platform instead of bringing them to yours regarding platforming, but I still generally disliked the move, as frankly, I don't have much faith in anyone who makes spouting the evil rhetoric their job at being misguided. I guess one could argue agitprop of Jung's audience if they wanted to be INSANELY generous.

This is me riffing before starting the stream btw, gonna listen to it for a bit to keep certified video watcher status since I'm discussing it and will return if anything inside changes my thoughts.

I went ahead and watched both videos, also watched Deculturation's livestream from last year where he joined forces with a few other people to review the time he called into the Majority Report to call out Sam Seder and the crew for being liberal Zionists. It hit me that what Sam Seder had said, where he generalized the definition of anti-zionism to the point of absurdity and only then did he agree with it^[if you're not familiar, his formulation was "Really I think anti-zionism was invented by the Zionists. Because my belief is just in democracy and equal rights, which apparently is anti-Zionism"], he can't just accept anti-Zionism and support for Palestinian liberation on its own merits, only when it's framed as a Westernized liberal project. But it screwed with me, because this is exactly what Mamdani said on the mayoral debate and he got praise for it: Israel has a right to exist as a state with equal rights. I brought it up last month when he won that we were giving Mamdani a pass for a liberal zionist take (granted, in a mayoral debate that shouldn't have anything to do with Israel) and I even got some pushback here.

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

• yewtu.be
• inv.nadeko.net
• yt.artemislena.eu
• piped.video

https://hexbear.net/comment/6287825