I have a question.
this post was submitted on 29 Aug 2023
29 points (89.2% liked)
Communism
9342 readers
31 users here now
Discussion Community for fellow Marxist-Leninists and other Marxists.
Rules for /c/communism
Rules that visitors must follow to participate. May be used as reasons to report or ban.
- No non-marxists
This subreddit is here to facilitate discussion between marxists.
There are other communities aimed at helping along new communists. This community isn't here to convert naysayers to marxism.
If you are a member of the police, armed forces, or any other part of the repressive state apparatus of capitalist nations, you will be banned.
- No oppressive language
Do not attempt to justify your use of oppressive language.
Doing this will almost assuredly result in a ban. Accept the criticism in a principled manner, edit your post or comment accordingly, and move on, learning from your mistake.
We believe that speech, like everything else, has a class character, and that some speech can be oppressive. This is why speech that is patriarchal, white supremacist, cissupremacist, homophobic, ableist, or otherwise oppressive is banned.
TERF is not a slur.
- No low quality or off-topic posts
Posts that are low-effort or otherwise irrelevant will be removed.
This is not a place to engage in meta-drama or discuss random reactionaries on lemmy or anywhere else.
This includes memes and circlejerking.
This includes most images, such as random books or memorabilia you found.
We ask that amerikan posters refrain from posting about US bourgeois politics. The rest of the world really doesn’t care that much.
- No basic questions about marxism
Posts asking entry-level questions will be removed.
Questions like “What is Maoism?” or “Why do Stalinists believe what they do?” will be removed, as they are not the focus on this forum.
- No sectarianism
Marxists of all tendencies are welcome here.
Refrain from sectarianism, defined here as unprincipled criticism. Posts trash-talking a certain tendency or marxist figure will be removed. Circlejerking, throwing insults around, and other pettiness is unacceptable.
If criticisms must be made, make them in a principled manner, applying Marxist analysis.
The goal of this subreddit is the accretion of theory and knowledge and the promotion of quality discussion and criticism.
Check out ProleWiki for a communist wikipedia.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I have a limited understanding of theory, so take that into consideration. I have recently been researching geopolitics and world systems theory and trying to apply it to political economies. From my understanding, communism is achievable in simple societies, but difficult in complex societies. Complex societies tend to foster social hierarchies and authoritarianism due to their complexity. If anyone can give me their opinions I would appreciate it. Whether it’s an area for further study or someone else’s research.
Communism is an extrapolation of capitalism from feudalism. To summarize, Marx saw how the nature of class struggle led to the overthrow of the nobility leading to the advent of capitalism, and extrapolated how class struggle will lead to the overthrow of the bourgeoisie leading to the advent of communism. (The process of getting there is through socialism)
It is only within complex societies where there is a distinct hierarchy, that class struggle is intensified, and there can be a communist revolution.
Would social hierarchies develop over time? How would that be prevented?
First we need to make clear what you mean by social hierarchy. Social hierarchy manifests in different ways, the most prominent of which is class, as currently defined by their relationship to the means of the production. There are other aspects (which we call intersectionalities) which don’t necessarily manifest in a hierarchical sense like race, gender, ethnicity, religion, etc. which will become more prevalent once class is eliminated, for sure. (More on this in a bit)
Now recall earlier where I mentioned that communism is an extrapolation of capitalism from feudalism. During the transition to capitalism, the capitalists eliminated the nobility class, by seizing state power. Extrapolating from that, the transition to communism (into socialism) will seek to eliminate the capitalist class by seizing state power. (Which is easier said than done because this is a multiplayer game and you have to defend against imperialists.)
Once we eliminate the capitalist class, what is left? Only the proletariat, as well as intersectionalities and prejudices left over from capitalism and imperialism that we must acknowledge and resolve.
And only once those are resolved, can we reach communism.
So the answer to your question is “bit by bit, starting with the capitalist class.”
Got it. It’s good to see that others see the concept as achievable.
Well of course. Because the elimination of hierarchies, and the synthesis of viewpoints has been achieved multiple times already.
The marxist analysis of history is called historical materialism (Stalin has THE book on this), it boils down to the "history of hitherto society is the history of the development of the means of production".
A basic example: In primitive societies, everyone had to work to survive, 10 hunters provided the food for 10 people. As the tools of hunting evolved (the bow being the paradigm shifter) a single hunter could now provide for 10 people, freeing up those people to do other work, hence making the old structure of society completely obsolete.
This is how systems die and get replaced. At one point capitalism replaced feudalism (read theory), eventually communism will replace capitalism it is inevitable tho it doesn't mean that the old system will go down peacefully as they have never gone peacefully.
If you ask me, the capitalist class became obsolete as the production of tools used for education and distribution (books and especially computers and the internet) became sufficiently capable. We just haven't replaced it yet.
That is an interesting idea to think on. When the proletariat have the means to educate themselves, the bourgeoisie becomes irrelevant. It seems AI and advancements in 3d printing will accelerate this.
Especially since so many of these advancements will now be reduced to fill a profit motive, when they could be used to better wider society in a far better fashion.
I’m gonna read this 3 more times, and maybe I’ll understand it. Okay, I think I understand. The modes of production determine the system employed dependent on historical context. So the mode of production can change because the current system (capitalism) is unsustainable. I’m sure Socialism is inevitable, but still not sure that true communism will follow. Maybe it’s a failure of my imagination and education, that given enough time communism will be inevitable too.
Definitely. Socialism is the future. My question is whether that can eventually transition to true communism? Or whether it would be difficult to implement on such a large scale (worldwide). China seems best equipped to shepherd this. But a world wide change is a lot to ask.
Why did liberal democracy replace feudalism?
Sometimes I can’t tell if downvotes here are loyal libs and confused comrades
Sometimes they’re just misclicks by comrades that didn’t intend to downvote but that doesn’t happen very often
Thanks. That gives me a path to research.
I also am pretty limited regarding theory, but I do remember seeing an online video of a teacher saying how, at the end of his life, Marx was studying primitive forms of society and their complexity.
So I do have to question you in what do you mean by complex societies, because from what I understand ours is a extremely simple one, you are either a worker or a capitalist, there are in betweens but there isn't any other class you can be part of in capitalism.
I mean complex in terms of specialization of production. Like technology. Most people don’t know how their food gets to their table, or how to repair a combustion engine. I’m interested in how that would be maintained in a communist environment. I know the Soviets became industrialized and technologically advanced, but that was with the help of the state. With no state under stateless communism, would technological advances slow or be sporadic? It just seems that the current system of complexity might suffer in a transition. This is all academic and probably irrelevant due to climate crisis, but it’s interesting for me to contemplate.
Full easy to follow instructions to produce or repair all products and automated manufacturing facilities with automated delivery are theoretically possible. One can also have community repair centers to easily distribute repair tools to an as needed basis.