this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2023
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[–] Gold_E_Lox@lemmy.blahaj.zone 47 points 1 year ago (4 children)

my problem with this thread; u can't tell who is actually communist and authoritarian, and who is just authoritarian

[–] Iron_Lynx@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist/"Left" Authoritarian Communism is just authoritarian nationalist state capitalism that uses classist rhetoric instead of (or as well as) racist rhetoric.

And before people call me a tankie: Anything authoritarian is trash-tier shit.

[–] Album@lemmy.ca 23 points 1 year ago

Lol a tankie would never admit that. No threat of you getting called a tankie.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com 8 points 1 year ago

No you got it.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The difference is whether you get sent to a concentration camp or a gulag.

Oh, I guess they are pretty similar...

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Uh, depending on the concentration camp, not really.

I don't want to defend gulags but they didn't have poison shower rooms or child corpse disposal staff.

Working your slaves to death sometimes, sure, but you mostly came out the gulag alive.

Broken, but alive. Historians estimate that of about 20 million people sent to the gulags about 1.5 million died in them.

Which is a horrific example of compliance through terror but not quite the same thing as an extermination program.

Don't minimize the Holocaust on your way to agree with everyone else that tankies are delusional assholes.

[–] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just for information the death count of gulags is largely unknown. Russia itself says its 1 million but pretty much all other sources say its too low to be even believable. There are credible sources for 1.5 to 8 million deaths (also non-credible sources that go much higher). Unfortunately unlike the nazies, soviets did not really have record keeping at all so all sources are estimates based to prisoner and guard writings. Another factor that makes estimates hard is the practice of when a prisoner was near death they would be shipped home, a lot of those never made it home but don't count as killed by a gulag.

There was also mass deportations from satellite states that weren't sent to gulags presumably but that's a different thing.

[–] yA3xAKQMbq@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I don't want to defend gulags but they didn't have poison shower rooms or child corpse disposal staff.

Neither did concentration camps:

"Interned persons may be held in prisons or in facilities known as internment camps (also known as concentration camps). The term concentration camp originates from the Spanish–Cuban Ten Years' War when Spanish forces detained Cuban civilians in camps in order to more easily combat guerrilla forces. Over the following decades the British during the Second Boer War and the Americans during the Philippine–American War also used concentration camps.

The term "concentration camp" and "internment camp" are used to refer to a variety of systems that greatly differ in their severity, mortality rate, and architecture; their defining characteristic is that inmates are held outside the rule of law. Extermination camps or death camps, whose primary purpose is killing, are also imprecisely referred to as "concentration camps"."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment

Don't minimize the Holocaust on your way to agree with everyone else that tankies are delusional assholes.

The singularity of the Holocaust lies in the extermination camps, where millions of people were murdered with industrial efficiency:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_camp

Saying that concentration camps exist(ed) in other countries is not Holocaust relativism.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thus, "depending on the concentration camp."

And you know which ones he meant.

[–] yA3xAKQMbq@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, I don't know which ones "he" meant, because nobody mentioned Nazis, and apparently you still haven't understood the difference between concentration and death camps, and assuming everyone here is male is also kind of yuck you know.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe -4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Sure bro. You're making an honest argument in a comment chain that has used the phrase "authoritarian nationalist state capitalism."

Fuck all the way off, this isn't Facebook, people know what you're doing.

[–] yA3xAKQMbq@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This comment chain doesn't have the words "authoritarian nationalist state capitalism." in it, and you don't know shit about anything, go back to facebook.

I'm also not your fucking "bro", asshole, get lost.

[–] Quereller@lemmy.one 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Just be aware that the term concentration camp was used long before the NSDAP created their destruction camps. smithsonian

Sure, but the commenter had a very specific set in mind and it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise.

past definitions don't mean shit when their meaning changed

[–] bi_tux@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Right wing auth isn't exactly better than left wing auth

[–] Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com 4 points 1 year ago

Same crap in the end.

[–] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

They don't give a shit about worker enfranchisement - they're all right wing fascists, it's just that some of them are red-coded.