this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2023
0 points (NaN% liked)
Be sure to read the rule before you leave
1099 readers
1 users here now
Rule 3: If you visit MoreTankie196, you are contractually obliged to post before you leave
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I don't know about Bakunin's status among anarchists today but it's not that important. This whole point is irrelevant, the important point is the underlying philosophy and world-view which is still the same.
Not all the individuals in a mass have the same needs and interests. Classes exist but even within classes there are contradictions. The mass is thoroughly heterogeneous. Individuals make up the mass but they don't exist as abstract entities outside of the mass. It's a dialectical relationship - individuals exist only as parts of the mass. Some vague abstract freedom of the individual is not compatible with the material liberation of the masses. We evolved as social creatures and continue to exist as such, we can't just yell about "individual freedom" while completely ignoring the material conditions we exist in. To quote Marx: '“Liberation” is an historical and not a mental act, and it is brought about by historical conditions, the development of industry, commerce, agriculture...'
Anarchism as an ideology cannot achieve the long-term liberation of the masses. Historically through practice we know that Marxism is the path towards this.
I don't see how this is implied anywhere here. The opposite of this, however, is true. The whole premise of liberalism is some vague idealistic freedom of the individual which in reality includes the freedom to enslave and exploit others.
You're basically saying if anarchism was correct, it would be Marxism which is true but a meaningless statement. Anarchists are more than welcome to learn and become Marxists but this doesn't save the ideology of anarchism form being incorrect.
It's just a meme which does expose some of the flaws and contradictions in anarchism but it's by no means a theoretical analysis of it. Marxist analyses of anarchism have been done (I linked some of them in my previous comment) and all reach the same conclusion. The ideology of anarchism is not salvageable because it is fundamentally flawed.
Space travel here is just a bit of an exaggerated example but it really can be substituted by any sufficiently complex industry or endeavor which is necessary for the continuation of society. We cannot go backwards, we have reached a certain industrial, scientific and technological complexity which we keep advancing and which is necessary to feed, house, and educate all the people on Earth and is necessary for our daily lives to continue functioning properly. After capitalism, these things will still need to happen and this will require further organization and societal structures or institutions which when communist build them, anarchist call out as bad. Not to mention the protection of such a society from counterrevolution or outside imperialist forces.
Saying that anarchist couldn't achieve space travel follows directly from a debunk of their beliefs because in order to actually achieve space travel you need to first have a successful revolution and then a successful society which can fulfill all the basic needs of its people and then deal with all the technological and scientific work necessary for space travel which the anarchist ideology does not provide a basis for. If anarchists actually create a materially plausible plan for any of this, it basically just sound like a Marxist type socialism and not anarchism.
He's still mentioned basically every time anyone asks about anarchist theory so i would say he's significant. Of course between "mentioned" and "actually being read" there is a huge gap, especially in case of anarchists.