this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2023
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I do not support the Hamas terrorist attacks against Israel. That’s my Shibboleth. What Hamas did is unspeakable evil and unforgivable.
That said, Palestinians are human beings and around half of their population are children. When you cut off food, water, electricity, and bomb civilian areas, including the cultural hub of all of Gaza, to dust, maybe your retaliation has gone too far.
What if the prisoners held by Hamas are being treated humanely and taken care of? All this mass slaughter to get them back will look even more barbarous.
I think the claims are that Israel told Palestinians to move south, then bombed the corridors going south. The Palestinians moving south gave up on finding sanctuary there and went back home to the north. Then got bombed again.
I’m not saying that’s true, just what is being claimed.
It is very much true and documented.
in the early days of the current camapaign Israel also told people to flee to the Rafah crossing, to bomb it a few hours later. At that point it could be argued, that the different parts of the government struggled to coordinate their actions and made a mistake.
But since then this has happened repeatedly. Including the bombing on UN operated hospitals, schools and refugee camps it is pretty clear, that Israel considers the prevention of civillians killed by Israeli bombs an afterthought at best.
The other issue is that those children will see Israel as the ones that bombed them and killed their family and will be more likely to join Hamas in the future. Further perpetuating this insanity.
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.
I'm starting to think this is a feature, not a bug...
I honestly don’t understand how more world leaders are not condemning Israel’s actions.
Killing innocent people should be wrong whoever is doing the killing. Rishi Cuntface Sunak refuses to ask for a ceasefire because they have the right to defend themselves, like what? Does that mean some of the innocent victims have a right to hit back at Israel.
And that's how Hamas was born.
Literally kicking the terrorism problem a couple decades down the road at best.
Make that a year.
Tbh, I don't think either side is treating people humanely.
One side is an open air prison. Fuck your two sides bullshit.
Thanks for the non-constructive commentary. Helps me know who I need to block to cultivate a better experience on lemmy, dicknozzle.
You're trying to defend colonialists commiting genocide
Go back to lemmygrad.
I've stated elsewhere what information lead me to make my comment and asked for objective feedback to allow myself a chance to change my opinion.
Comments like yours are useless unhelpful and reek of absolute brainrot.
If you want to have a discussion, be polite and show me some facts all I'm aware of right now is Israel is bombing civilians and I heard reports of Hamas killing some hostages in early days.
If either of those are inaccurate how about you talk about it instead of being a dickhead?
Pure projection here. Go back to history class you've got a lot of learning to do.
And how about you go fuck yourself?
It's literally impossible to have a conversation where someone is incorrect without you and all of your toxic dipshit friends shitting on the poor soul all for the simple mistake of being incorrect.
For fucks sake you don't even give someone a chance to allow themselves to be informed it's just straight to being an asshole. God.
Again you literally started by calling someone "dicknozzle". You're the one that decided to lower the tone. Stop acting like a victim.
I have never been a member of lemmygrad lol
Also you can't ask someone to be polite after calling people "dicknozzle". Whatever that thing is you should go and choke on one.
I mean they're treating hostages humanely. That's just good politics.
There's a released Hamas prisoner claiming she received good medical treatment and ate the same food as the terrorists. Whoever has a brain in Hamas understands that this is a good idea. We shouldn't trust that everyone in Hamas has a brain though, just out of pure statistics there must have been prisoners who have been abused beyond just having been kidnapped because someone couldn't keep their spite inside themselves.
I see the other comment, but the reason I made my comment, I remember earlier on in Israel's War on ~palesteinians~ terrorism hearing reports of hostages being killed/paraded around like some kind of disgusting trophy.
Was this information inaccurate?
Source was somewhere on lemmy in one of the various discussions that have happened so bit difficult to track down I'm afraid.
Yes. It was incorrect. It was hostage. Not plural. The ethnicity Jewish, German tattoo artist. I'm not 100% on the outcome, though I think she survived. But it wasn't widespread or common. Not defending Hamas mind you.
Outside of the leadership though it's extremely ragtag and lacking in discipline. There's going to be a lot of variation in treatment of hostages just by the particular group that took them. They're mostly teenagers raised in an open air genocide camp. With no resources or hope. Who's families tend to die fairly young via starvation, lack of medical care, or a diet of Israeli bullets. It can drive people to be quite bitter, cruel, and irrational.
And it's really easy to say they should just kick out or turn over the guys who possess all the weapons, and are an active threat against them and their families. When they have no one defending them. It truly is just regular people at the mercy of toxic dicks at either end.
Feels like lemmy when you're incorrect or seem to have an opinion that certain instances don't agree with.
Shitting on lemmygrad and lemmy.ml aside, appreciate you not being a dick and helping to correct my knowledge of the situation. Given what I now understand, my comment was in error.
I'm also not defending Hamas or the Israelis. I definitely understand why Hamas acted as they did, but the Israeli response is absolute garbage.
There's a lot of emotion flying around with all this right now. It's better to try to stay back a little bit. Even though that's largely impossible. Because unfortunately outside of the everyday people, none of the other groups involved are innocent or good.
And yeah even us socialists aren't fond of leninists.
I always find I get along better with socialists even if we aren't 100% aligned politically. In the states, we vote alike, but that's like saying we a straight line alike.
Yeah, those people being genocided need to start being more civil. Otherwise they'll deserve the genocide.
There reports that Hamas actually is withholding fuel from the population to cause this.
I mean it could be just propaganda, but when Israel sent sms notifications to evacuate, because they will start bombing, Hamas started giving leaflets to stay at home, and it is just attempt to create panic. Someone posted such leaflet, unfortunately I no longer can find it.
Seems like those leaflets were probably good advice. Israel has told northern Gazans to move south, but then proceeded to bomb areas in the south. It's almost seems like the intent was to concentrate them to increase civilian life loss... But why would Israel do that?!
Oh there's even more angles than just that.
"Oh no, we told them to go south. Must mean everyone still here is Hamas and we can murder these 'combatants' that certainly aren't civilians".
Also, they get to annex even more Palestinian land. It's even on the coast!
I swear to fuck, unless an Israeli mouthpiece is calling Palestinians sub-human, everything else is lies or projection.
Israel also claimed that the attack on a hospital was a Hamas rocket and showed a video as alleged proof that most news outlets parroted.
Now the NYT analysed the video shown as proof by Israel and concluded it to be an Israeli rocket that exploded two miles away from the hospital.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-video.html
Non-paywalled link: https://web.archive.org/web/20231025031648/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/world/middleeast/gaza-hospital-israel-hamas-video.html
Being pro Palestine but anti Hamas is like being pro beef but anti slaughtering cows. Hamas is the means Palestine has to force Israel to quit their genocide, disavowing them is the same as being pro Israeli genocide.
Hard disagree. Hamas attacking and kidnapping Israeli civilians is not on the children and civilians of Palestine. Just as many Israelis don’t agree with the policies of the Netanyahu government.
Moderate voices need to prevail in both Israel and Palestine for lasting peace to become reality.
Moderate voices need to prevail in Israel. Extremist voices need to prevail in Palestine, because the people committing genocide do not give one fuck about moderate Palestinians. You don't stop genocide with talk, you stop it with terrorism and mass slaughter in return. Until the rest of the world steps up to do their violence for them, Palestine needs to slaughter as many Israelis as possible. That is the only language that genociders respond to.
I certainly don't blame Palestine for the actions of Hamas. I blame Israel. Israel is the one who forced Palestine to resort to terrorism. Short of their own genocide, anything Palestine needs to do to prevent Israel genociding them is justified. They have the right to defend themselves (which is true when Palestinians say it - Israel has never been defending itself).
In what world does Hamas slaughtering Israeli civilians lead to peace? That’s madness. Peace only happens when both sides come together. The Saudis were close to negotiating a peace deal with Israel right before the Hamas attack happened.
Palestinian lives were about to get better. That’s why Hamas attacked when they did.
Hamas has already done far more than their fair share of peace. The only language Israel understands is violence. Hamas is the only reason Israel is even considering a ceasefire. If you think Hamas killing Israelis is not in the benefit of all Palestinians, you're a fool.