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this post was submitted on 19 Dec 2023
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Queue the tide of rhetoric insisting it’s between Biden and Trump…. And we’re the problem for not voting they way they tell us to.
We are not telling you how to vote.
We are pointing at the massive, red, flashing danger sign around Trumps neck. The dude has literally said he's going to be a dictator day one, and once a country starts down that path, the only way out is massive amounts of bloodshed.
Oh, and don't think any country is gonna drop what they are doing to help us.
You vote to stop that first, then your generation needs to run for office at the state level. THATS where the real power lies.
right now in primary season, trump has nothing to do with who the DNC candidate is. If you were truly motivated by defeating trump, you'd be looking at the "probably 50 other democrats" who could also defeat trump, because the absolute best way to defeat trump is to, you know, select the best candidate. Which is increasingly not Biden.
Oh and that number of fifty comes directly from Biden himself. just saying. But, do, go on repeating the same thing that let Trump win in '16 against Hillary- ignoring the comments for critical segments of the democrat's base saying "we don't like them".
sure! absolutely! for primaries go nuts, kick up a stink, let’s get a better candidate! totally agree!
but when it comes to the election and if trump is the nominee for republicans and biden is the nominee for the democrats then you get the hell out there, suck up your pride and you vote against the dictator… and the only effective way of voting against the dictator is a vote for the democrats - not because you like it, not because it’s fair - but because the USA has a first past the post system and that’s just the bullshit reality of the situation
and then, if you have the energy, you help at the local level to implement something like RCV
(should be noted, i’m australian so i have no power to do anything, and a lot of people will say i have no business making comments like this because im not american! however america has placed itself in a position of power on the global stage - the way yall vote effects everyone! its critical - GLOBALLY - that trump doesn’t win)
have you guys installed RCV? I'd love to hear specifics about implementation. (The biggest resistance is "people won't know how to vote"... because they're sooooo good at voting now.) trying to convince the Lame Duck governor to go for broke on everything.
yeah we have RCV for everything… everyone knows how to vote; it’s really not hard
https://www.aec.gov.au/media/2022/05-11.htm
this articles a little old and it’s changed a bit since then, but on a basic level it the same:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/14/how-does-australia-s-voting-system-work
the gist is that if you want to just vote for a party, you can: if you simply put a 1 in a box, that party will assign your preferences (when you vote “below the line” - numbering every box in the order that you’d like - you have to fill out 150 numbers, making sure you don’t make a mistake)
so your ballot paper has about 20 different parties[1] on it, ranging from the major parties (coalition/liberal/national and labour) to a few others (greens are becoming big, socialist alliance, etc), and then single issue parties (legalise cannabis australia, there was a high speed rail party at 1 point)… and it has a bunch of individual politicians below each party with their own boxes
if you decide that legalising cannabis is the issue you care about, you can just number their box and they’ll allocate your preferences - hopefully based on how likely they think a particular politician is to support legalising cannabis. you can also put multiple numbers above the line and a range of other things, but at its simplest it’s putting a 1 in a box and going home
some of this might be slightly incorrect because it can get very complex and i don’t really delve too deep into how the ballot actually works at its most complex level… but i think the great thing is that you can vote according to whatever complexity or detail you like and the system ensures your vote is allocated to who you’d most likely want
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Australia
interesting. I... wonder how the system would resolve putting a '2' in the box and then voting for somebody else as a 1, but otherwise party line. like the party-line vote is the failsafe, but I put my preferred 2 or 3 candidates in first.
thank you for your input!
you can only vote above (party preference) or below (all preferences) the line on our ballots, so that’s not a situation that can occur, however i imagine it’d be something the actual counting system could tolerate - heck you could probably even assign someone an arbitrary 51 and imo the system could just grab that person out of the party preferences, sequence the list, and then put them in at number 51 and that’s your preference list
otherwise, the party preferences are published in advance, so you can always print them off and tweak them, then vote below the line
Pretty sure Russia will. It's just that you and I won't be part of the us they are helping.
Yes. It is just those two. It's always just 2 every election. And you are the problem if you pretend to not understand that.
That's a year out. We're not at that point yet. which kind of makes YOU the problem. Biden is a deeply unpopular candidate and instead of facing that fact- and listening to the warnings being given, and at the very least addressing them- you blather on about how awful trump is.
But the whole point of primaries, which apparently i need to remind you, is to select the best candidate for a given party. you see how that works? this is a debate internal to the DNC. trump has nothing to do with this discussion, except as motivation to select the best candidate possible. Which, Biden cannot defeat trump. period. He's now too deeply unpopular among large segments of the Dem's base.
the core arguemnt of "this isn't the year... next year, maybe" has been the rallying cry of moderates since I've been voting. You need to stop trotting that out along side the shitty candidates and start picking people who are actually... you know... popular? And let us not forget, Biden has been in government for longer than I've been alive. He's a part of why things are the way they are today.
Proof?
Parties almost never run primaries with an incumbent. It's stupid as all hell to throw away a known quantity who already won.
"He's unpopular". There isn't a more popular candidate. Harris has nothing to her name except VP and they're not going to throw her away for a new VP. And primaries bring the circus: debates, new dirt dug up. You want to beat Trump? Tossing up more doubt isn't going to do it.
his current approval rating is something like 30%, across the board. only 61% of democrats say they approve, and that number is sinking lower. do you really call that "popular"? keep in mind the sheer number of individuals who, in modern politics do not actually have a party- many of whom still tend to be progressive anyhow.
incumbents who are so weak as to let people think it's a good idea to primary them... usually don't do so hot in the regular election. Because. you know. They're weak. Look at Ford vs Reagan, Carter Vs Kenedy (where carter won the primary and lost to Reagan.). H.W. vs Buchanan should be pretty useful here... H.W. won the primary, lost to Clinton. there's a pretty clear pattern- even if the causes are less clear- of incumbents who get primaried loosing the regular election.
which, it's pretty stupid to run somebody whose known to be not particularly popular, too. Or. You know, Biden could do what he promised, step down after his first term. And then move to support and campaign for someone whose actually not smeared with the stink currently coming of Biden.
You did not address their main point, which is that there simply isn't a candidate that has a better, or even comparable, chance of winning.
Approval ratings are also notoriously inaccurate, especially for dems.
Even Biden has admitted recently there is in fact “probably 50 democrats who can beat trump”
As for accuracy… it’s not that they’re necessarily inaccurate, it’s more a fundamentally flawed assumption on what the poll means… and who responded.
The 38% of democrats in that poll that are unhappy with Biden , are never going for trump. We know they’re probably not gen z and millennials (who aren’t home to answer calls, and aren’t.
While many- quite likely most will “fall in line” in November…. Wouldn’t it be nice to have a candidate not actually loathed by at least a 1/3 the base? Wouldn’t that be easier to win? Biden’s incumbency has more baggage than most
But but but the incumbent advantage!1!! We have to run this deeply unpopular octogenarian!
Let me guess, you think some far left candidate will have broader appeal than the centrist? Far too many on the fediverse seem to have difficulty understanding the realities of first-past-the-post.
They ignore the reality of their suddenly disliking Biden & the lack of time on fielding a viable candidate. They didn't condemn Biden during the 2021 Israel–Palestine crisis. They don't know that Trump halted US funds to UNRWA & Biden reversed that. Skipped out on state Democratic conventions despite polling showing Democrat support for Palestine exceed Israel support & they could have tried to push for party platform changes. If they dislike Biden as much as they claim, then why did they not fund a PAC or challenger years ago?
Because we didn’t have a problem with him until he was giving weapons to Israel to commit genocide with
Nothing has ever changed with US-Israel military sales & cooperation. Biden has never championed that he was ever going to end or limit that. Again why did all the "concerned" voter not make an effort to charge the Democratic party platform or support a candidate or effort from the get go?
Quite frankly I question the seriousness of anyone who just became "concerned" now.
https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-israel/
Do you not understand how certain recent events may change peoples views on Israel?
Feel free to change their view but be rational about it.
They still have enough time to rally around US House & Senate candidates to advocate for issues such as this. Field a PAC or some kind of effort for 2028 if this is their first foray into single issue voting. Learn about power of down ballot. Get involved with local/state political party perhaps consider joining another one if you are so opposed to the Democratic one.
And every one of those is a rational well thought out plan, I give you that the 2020 is in the lake for every person you guys between now and the end because our present continues to give them weaponry after he has seen what they do with it. I don’t want the guy who makes those kind of choices in charge of my country. You have still have two months before the primaries when that’s locked in.
Choose a better person.
To quote a movie, if we burn you burn with us.
Suicide bomber logic
Why not?
Why should we support a system that ignores us but continues to demand more and more for less and less?
Because ignoring the realities of our system will lead to a worse outcome for everyone, including you?
So join me, we have seen what support genocide Biden will do.
Isn’t that chick that managed to flip Wisconsin running?
Let’s back her, we have seen the results she has.
First off I'm not that worried about the threat. The attention span of these "concerned" voters is going to wane quickly. They didn't care in 2021 they will probably fizzle out in 2024 especially if the tempo of war changes, already the civilian causality rate in Gaza has gone down considerably & even the Biden administration is demanding Israel to state goals/conditions for our support to continue(evidence of our bargaining power with UN votes). President Biden is toughening our stance to bring Two-state solution back to the table which isn't in focus sadly in Israel. This is why he is a billion times better than the opposition or any other alternative.
Right there in your response shows the naivety of how to handle a LONG term issue with short-term action. No matter if Hamas is destroyed or another round of ceasefires occurs the Palestinians will have to rebuild and need aid. They really need & deserve more than that honestly. Lets survey the current landscape, UN is pulling peacekeepers out of Africa & decreasing funds to food aid globally. Are anti-UN candidates such as Cornell West, Any GOP candidate, Robert Kennedy Jr., or others really going to be able to reverse that? Will known "America First" republicans & progressives that favor "Spend Money here first/only" politicians going to be good for Palestinians?
Sure, they can wish to burn it down in hopes it makes them feel better for some weird reason. Just not sure it achieves anything than making it worse for Palestinians. If they believe they have the ability to tank a presidential campaign, why not also (or only)focus Congressional or Senate primaries? Congress is the ones that authorizes weapon sales & could give more assistance to Palestinians. Congressional District represents 700K and Senate races are handled on a state level which should be easier than a National campaign. God knows a stronger effort is needed to prevent the censure let alone the expulsion of Pro-Palestinian legislators.
I guess it comes down to vibes or good feelings not the pragmatic efforts needed to actually achieve something.
My problems with Biden are not solely related to Israel, we also have him not supporting unions.
All the things you’re saying or things that we’ve been trying for years and they are not working.
When everyone solution away is always do the same thing but just wait, all that says to us is, we’re not listening to you. Keep doing it our way.
Maybe it’s time to shake up the fucking system and let people be uncomfortable for a little bit while we rebuild it.
It’s the same story you hear over and over again in history, people are not willing to listen to those who are being knocked down by the system, until eventually people are done with it, and then things happen. They happen quickly, and they happen violently, and they could all be prevented if y’all would just listen to other people.
You can’t suppress the population forever
Not chocking Biden up as the best pro-Union president but are you dense here, he has actually done quite a lot to reverse the trend & a big supporter. You'd have to ignore the last 50 years to think he is bad for unions.
All I can glean from this is you have a strong distaste for democracy? Its the best system we have and not sure you even have a grasp on how it works or can even promote a viable alternative. The bigger risk is folks that want to burn the system down & can't even articulate what they want let alone discuss how it would be better.
Yes I hate democracy, that’s why I have voted in every local, state, and national election since I turned 18.
It is why I contact my Senators and representatives and the White House.
Did you know their phones are only open from Tuesday to Thursday for, I believe, four hours a day?
Actions over words, friend, and his actions aren’t matching his words.
Run somebody knew we still have time to primary.
If you don’t, you won’t have my opposition, I’m not that stupid. You just won’t have my support.
Yes, I am aware of the awful policy of Travel days of Monday & Friday and dislike it. I could see some Mondays but Friday is annoying. Former speaker Pelosi brought it back and something I've disliked for quite some time. I'm sympathetic to Western states but allowing some limited tolerance of proxy votes easily addresses that.
His actions have been pretty great but hey if you want to bury your head fine, enjoy yourself.
Your participation in elections are great but if you are such a super voter then get more involved in your local party & encourage others. Nothing President Biden has done has ever been in violation of our national party platform & I probably same for many state democratic parties. I'm cool with some aspects of third parties if the Democrat Party structure and/or platform is unpalatable to you.
Nobody is worried about your opposition its just juvenile if its just a no vote on the president. Also, the critique about "systems" seems very horseshoe-y .
Vote how you want lemmy cuz and glad you do so. Have a great one and we can continue this on other subjects.
I don't know where you are getting your info but you are totally wrong. Biden is responsible for the resurgence of unions we've been experiencing:
This is thanks to Biden's appointments to the NLRB. He's done more to support unions than any president in my lifetime.
So why did he turn his back on the railroad workers?
According to the IBEW, he didn't:
Biden himself explained why he signed the bill:
I imagine if the economy tanked under his watch he would have been blamed for that as well.
Fair enough, I will take that off of the list.
And fucking Biden can say whatever he wants it, but words do not equal actions. I can sit here and say all day I’m not gonna slap you in the face but if I keep doing it, what are my words worth?
She is doing the same thing a Blinken is accusing Israel of doing intent not matching action.
You can’t just say don’t look at the man behind the curtain when there’s no one there, the curtain is clear, and we all know that the mighty oz is just a sock puppet