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[-] AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip 28 points 8 months ago

Still think something between communism and capitalism would be the best. Both show a lot of problems but both have benefits. A well regulated and equal competition with linear growth(not like capitalism with its exponential growth that produces musks and bezos') sounds right to me. I think UBI would be exploited so just give them the basics in food, shelter, internet access, etc. But of course in the hellscape called modern politics everyone has to be an extremist so only hardcore capitalism, hardcore communism, genocide, etc are represented.

[-] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 36 points 8 months ago

Market economies are actually pretty great for a lot of things. The problems we have in capitalism are 1. the capitalist class, who make their living without contributing anything by min-maxing wages and prices, and 2. the privatization of necessities.

  1. A market economy for non-essentials would work splendidly so long as the income of each business was distributed to the people who actually did the work. The problem is non-working shareholders. Every worker should be a shareholder, every shareholder should be a worker. Market socialism is the way.

  2. Market economies cannot work efficiently for essentials. If the alternative to a purchase is death or serious injury, it ceases to be a voluntary purchase, the downward pressure of abstinence vanishes, and prices skyrocket. We've seen this in healthcare and housing. We need a public option for both.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 16 points 8 months ago

Profit motive still forces enshittification, unfortunately.

[-] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 8 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_socialism

There's also a lot to be said about financial norms and systems, for instance regardless of the organization of labor the way we measure GDP is fundamentally a very flawed and arbitrary approximation of "wealth" yet it is the driver behind so many political decisions. My (admittedly unqualified) understanding is thst we could significantly improve quality of life and market efficiency by addressing some of these flaws.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 8 months ago

Market Socialism would be a great improvement in stability and quality of life, but it wouldn't solve enshittification outright, because the profit motive is still there. Ideally that would be phased out.

[-] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 months ago

Every improvement is incremental, a stable system is developed by individual steps in the right direction. Overly ambitious changes tend to regress back to the last point of stability.

[-] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

This is the way

[-] JayDee@lemmy.ml 4 points 8 months ago

I think if we can steer this burning trash pile into a regulated coop-based economy, with a star-based voting system (I'd settle for ranked choice at this point), whose economy isn't propped up by the cheap exploitation of developing foreign nations, I'll be much happier. While we're at it, solving homelessness and developing more sustainable infrastructures would be great.

[-] MyFairJulia@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

You had my interest but now you have my full attention.

[-] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 13 points 8 months ago

Capitalism is very clearly not a one-size-fits-all solution…but if there’s one thing capitalism hates, it’s competition.

[-] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

capitalism corrupts

Also there's nothing inherently wrong with extreme ideology as a concept. It's only a call for radical change to the current social order. Liberalism which is to say our modern "democratic capitalist" structure would have been considered extremism during feudal times.

The extremist boogie man is a lie peddled by those who benefit from the status quo to insure those who don't are too scared to change it

[-] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

Extremism usually relies on wishful thinking tbh. Also see this handy chart:

[-] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 21 points 8 months ago

The problem is that some of them don't have to wait for society to collapse, sometimes society is destined to decay into a specific form. The final stage of capitalism is fascism

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[-] areyouevenreal@lemm.ee 8 points 8 months ago

Why not something like market socialism?

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 8 months ago

Market Socialism is a great common sense first step, but it leaves enshittification because it keeps the profit motive. Ideally the profit motive should be phased out.

[-] areyouevenreal@lemm.ee 2 points 8 months ago

I don't think it's a perfect system, however there are easy ways to prevent this problem. You simply make either the customers or the government one of the parties holding shares of the companies. That way the customers also get to vote on decisions, or the government on behalf of the whole society.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 8 months ago

I feel like that's just a less efficient non-market form of Socialism, at that point it might make more sense to just fully socialize.

[-] areyouevenreal@lemm.ee 2 points 8 months ago

Fully socialize? Socialist market economy is a true socialist system already. You can't make it more socialist. Your confusing communism with socialism.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 8 months ago

I'm aware that it's fully anticapitalist, but full Socialism would imply collective ownership of the Means of Production, not just ownership at an entity level.

Communism would also get rid of the state, so I'm not quite referring to Communism in this instance.

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this post was submitted on 29 Feb 2024
718 points (90.2% liked)

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