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OPENING CAVEAT: this is purely a rant about my own experiences as a not-rich leftist cis man in a mostly liberal city trying to date women. I cannot speak to any other experiences but mine.

I’m an occasional poster, mostly lurker here posting on a burner acct cause I don’t want to get at all personal on main.

all that out of the way….I am in my mid thirties, living in a large city, strongly leftist (maybe not by hexbear standards but certainly those of….virtually everywhere else), and holy shit does straight dating fucking suck in the 2020s. or at least it has for me.

over the course of my adult years I have rejected one way or another pretty much every structural advantage cis white men typically enjoy (especially higher income) in search of somewhat more ethical ways to get by. I quit my old “real” (bullshit) career and switched over to physical labor work that lets me completely unplug and helps me stay (relatively) fit but also keeps me perpetually on the edge of broke. when I tell women what I do there is a total incuriosity about it, as opposed to when I had a relatively well-paid bullshit career with a ladder - that, strangers can respect. now I scrape by but I no longer have panic attacks wondering what the fuck I’m doing. a personal win that has nevertheless rendered me a lot less dateable in the eyes of my peers. I am not imagining this change in perception, I don’t think, nor did I anticipate it. I guess I should have.

that’s when I even get to the stage of chatting someone up, mind you. when I walk into a small venue or party surrounded by strangers, to steal a line, “I do not light it up.” a single man (or at least a single me) at a social gathering or event is like a fucking wandering fart. (I have described this phenomenon to a couple of female friends and they didn’t disagree.) I guess this helps explain the enduring “wingman” concept but p much all my friends are partnered women I would never dare ask to help me in that way.

I’m slightly below average height which rules out dating basically all women over 5’7 due to idk internalized misogyny or whatever (ftr I would have absolutely no problem dating a taller person if they were attracted to me, and in fact was with someone significantly taller for several years, but since the advent of the apps I get the sense I’m getting filtered out altogether, whether on an app or in person). I know there are a lot of jokes about this but it really is just statistically measurably more difficult in my experience to date women as a short-ish guy (unless you're rich I assume).

in theory I could end my misery of abject singlehood by submitting myself to the mercy of The Apps - I met my last partner there a couple of years ago after a fucking shit ton of swiping - but I am too full of spite to consider going back right now. I hate hate hate using them, hate the feeling that I am entering a highly competitive meat market in which I am clearly a below average cut due to the above mentioned reasons, hate being reminded every time I open them up. also as mentioned I’m fuckin broke and at least as a man, ime, you gotta pay money to make them usable/useful (AKA shoot enough shots to even get a response before you hit the paywall).

that’s all beside my philosophical/political objection to using them which is that I fuckin abhor having to give my extremely personal information to some evil company. that’s why I have tried to manufacture as many scenarios/activities as possible to meet ppl IRL, but it’s been a couple of years of this with barely a hint of a spark anywhere.

here’s another major problem specific to my age bracket and gender: I emphatically DO NOT WANT to try to date significantly younger women, but ime they really do seem to make up the majority of women interested in dating a man my age who lives the way I do (that is, sans any sense of upward mobility or interest in “traditional” ways of doing things).

lastly, I wanted to add something about the cis aspect of all this….most of my friends and associates are women and nb folks, and virtually all of them are some flavor of queer. I’m not really, or certainly not enough to comfortably identify that way. it really seems like all the cheap and no-cost speed dating events and mixers I’ve spotted, or at least the ones that would theoretically be good for meeting other leftists, are queer-centric or queer-exclusive. great for you folks! not very helpful for me tho…

also before anyone chimes in with “it’s cool/ok/fine to be single” or any variant thereof….I’ve already spent major chunks of my adult life, years at a time, on my own. I’ve reaped all the benefits there are from singlehood, and I’m grateful for them, but I’m just so fucking lonely and it gets harder every year.

thank you for entering the leftist cis man rant zone. I invite other hexbears to share their grievances as well. I'm not really looking for advice tbh just wanted to yell somewhere

EDIT: shout out to all fellow hexbears struggling in this area I very much like you all!

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[–] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 55 points 7 months ago (4 children)

also before anyone chimes in with “it’s cool/ok/fine to be single” or any variant thereof…

seriously fuck anyone who says this shit to someone saying they can't find any partner. and it's definitely not fucking fine to live your life with no peers who care about you.

[–] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 27 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I mean I wouldn't have any basis of comparison for anything else anyway deeper-sadness

[–] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 10 points 7 months ago (1 children)

i feel worse now than i did before having and then losing it sadness-abysmal

the kid in my elementary school who died in an accident had a better life.

[–] FourteenEyes@hexbear.net 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I used to get caught up in melodramatic framings of my misery like this, and please don't allow yourself to do the same. It's so fucking bad for you.

I'm sad and lonely and feel like my lack of relationships is a catch-22 that scares most women away and I absolutely fucking hate the idea of lying about it only to have to reveal to someone six months in that I was lying only for them to justifiably leave me for lying about my past but I'm not going to let myself believe that death is a better alternative anymore. I'm here and I'm trying my best to make the most of it. I would advise you to do the same.

If you had someone before it's far more likely you'll find someone than a person like me who's never really had anyone. I'm not going to give up. You shouldn't either.

[–] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 3 points 7 months ago

the alienation impacts us the same way, I can't recreate the social conditions where i met my partner (and it would be incredibly inappropriate to try), and i can't participate in a capitalist plague rat society. There's no melodrama, I just find life more and more intolerable as time goes on and have no power to change anything about it.

It's so, so much more than just the romantic/physical loneliness too.

i'd rather chew on broken glass than go through intake again. same goes for any kind of job seeking, app swiping, or whatever joke of a social safety net. When i was a kid and depressed i had some reason to hope highschool would be better than middleschool or that college and adulthood would be better than highschool but there's simply nothing to look forward to now. I cannot defeat the suburbs, alienation, poverty, ableism, and medical incompetence on my own and nobody is coming to rescue us. Hell, i can't even blame the suburbs that much because even if i lived in amsterdam i wouldn't go anywhere or do anything besides get groceries and weed.

[–] DivineChaos100@hexbear.net 11 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Absolutely dont fuck those people, learning to be okay with being single got me and a ton of people i know off the incel/conservative pipeline.

and it's definitely not fucking fine to live your life with no peers who care about you.

Which can be friends as well.

[–] TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

its not ok or a good life to never or only rarely have your sexual and emotional and intimate needs met. not every person can just be ace comfortably and its frankly ridiculous to imply that you have to either permanently repress your sexuality, desires, and needs or else you are an incel.

[–] DivineChaos100@hexbear.net 5 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

jesse-wtf

Maybe it's not a healthy state of mind to measure your self-worth in getting your dick in someone. Back in my day when dudes in high school were getting into all kinds of rapey situation in order to get laid and out of fear of loneliness and we called it toxic masculinity or something. Did something change in the last two years?

Edit: I'm not even fucking ace i just know that the earth doesnt revolve around my fucking sex life. Really, fuck me for not getting myself into a depression spiral over this.

[–] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

no, the "fuck that" is for telling other people just to accept our lot. It's not about my self-worth, it's about whether or not suffering through life is worth the pain, and if you could peer into the future and tell me i would live decades without any companionship then fucking put me right into the ground.

[–] DivineChaos100@hexbear.net 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You say it's not about your self worth but go on about how this is the issue why your life is worthless. I'm not really convinced.

[–] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 3 points 7 months ago

0 < not worth the suffering < worth the suffering

i don't think it's that hard to understand.

[–] macerated_baby_presidents@hexbear.net 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

JohnBrownNote's original comment saying that partners are the only way to get "peers who actually care about you" is not correct. But platonic love is not romantic love. I think it is entirely reasonable for alloromantic/allosexual people to want romance/sex in their life and to feel bad, even to be depressed, without that. (This may not help them find romance/sex, but that's a practical matter.)

[–] DivineChaos100@hexbear.net 2 points 7 months ago

You're right but

This may not help them find romance/sex, but that's a practical matter.

Is what the most important aspect of the whole problem is and why "stoicism" is actually very important and why "it's okay to be single" has to be explicitly said, especially to young people, especially to young lonely people, especially to the people who are snapped up by the right.

Anyway im gonna disengage from this thread because i was just pissed at first but im starting to spiral now.

[–] TheDialectic@hexbear.net 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

I agree that society should have some way to keep the edge off. Sex workers as thereputic services would be something Interesting to see a healthy society try. However we know our society I's deeply flawed so we have to kinda limp along.

[–] TraumaDumpling@hexbear.net 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

i was thinking more along the lines of addressing stuff like housing access, food insecurity, public transit, medical care, education, and non-profit public social spaces, and any other ways to fight capitalist alienation. i don't really know what to think about sex work especially under hypothetical socialism, its something so far removed from my reality or desires, so i don't really take a strong stance personally. obviously persecuting people who do sex work doesn't help anyone, but i would hope it would be unnecessary in a more egalitarian, socialist society.

[–] TheDialectic@hexbear.net 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

That is all the requisite of having a healthy society. You are right that it is getting a little close to angels on the head of a pin to imagine it. Still after the revolution I would be down to do my part and be cool and fun and the center of attention and to help some comrades have a nice time. I have enjoyed situations. there would be a section of the population that would always be down for a little adventure especially if they were safe and free to experement.

[–] macerated_baby_presidents@hexbear.net 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

i feel like this would be solved without sex work with better coordination mechanisms and destruction of patriarchy. There's few people inexperienced/annoying/unattractive enough that you couldn't find some other inexperienced/annoying/unattractive person to pair off with. Right now they don't because

  1. sucks to use an app mostly full of hot people that don't like you, so they leave
  2. objectification of women means men "get" something from sex; sex for pleasure is a labor parallel to sex for reproduction. Hence highly-gendered sex work for hundreds of years
  3. there are more male "bad partners" than female because of socialization under patricentricity. this means no-strings sex is dangerous for women

So sexless men search and find nothing (or resort to economic coercion) and sexless women don't search. We see healthier sex "economies" under socialism, e.g. GDR. I think that when people can fuck without getting stalked or hurt they will do so freely.

[–] TheDialectic@hexbear.net 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

This trend is observable. Even here in the great Satan if you find yourself in a sex positive community so much of people's behavior changes. It is one of the first little ways I ever experienced a better world being possible.

[–] JohnBrownNote@hexbear.net 6 points 7 months ago

stoicism doesn't solve problems. Acceptance of misery doesn't make the misery go away.

friends

so here's the thing about alienation under capitalism. the same things apply. I have hobbies, i have friends through those hobbies, but they are only present during those hobbies. People i've known for years but only in a task-oriented context

your bullshit rings incredibly hollow to someone who regularly goes months without so much as bumping fingers with a cashier and hasn't had even a platonic hug in several years.

[–] HelltakerHomosexual@hexbear.net 8 points 7 months ago

this, humans need a snuggle buddy at least