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Hotel to Search Rooms During DEF CON Hacking Conference
(www.404media.co)
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this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2024
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How can an inspection be non-intrusive if it consists of physically entering a guest's room? As an aside, I was hoping I could attend this year but my company said there wasn't enough budget 🙄. Whenever I attend Defcon or Blackhat, I stay in hotels not directly within the vicinity of the con because of all the shenanigans.
"Because we said it was!" - Hotel Management
Non-Intrusive in that they enter the room, which is their property and they have the right to enter, but they aren't going through your stuff.
Renters have rights.
They do, and you agree to whatever rights are outlined in the rental agreement when you check in and sign the forms.
There are rights you can't give up even by signing them away.
So you can't sign away your right to not have your room searched on the owner's property?
You're getting upvotes and the other guy down. Based on feelings.
Legal chapter and verse please.
Have you used the internet before? That's how this works
On private property, you agree to the terms the property owner sets.
There are still rights you 100% cannot sign away regardless of what property you are on.
There are also rights people think they have on private property that they absolutely do not have. ;)
There is a difference between being a customer in a store and a resident in a rental property.
Tenants have rights.
Hotel guests are not the same as tenants in a rental home though.
Im pretty sure hotel guests are more close to being customers than a rental resident.
When you give someone the key to property you own for an exchange of money, you indeed lose that explicit right.
So, no. You are incorrect. It is their property, but they gave up the right to enter with less than 24 hrs notice when they sold the keys.
This is by definition, intrusive.
I have to point out that they have, indeed, given more than 24 hours notice with the letter they posted. DEF CON hasn't started yet and they informed the con organizers to inform the attendees with the rooms.
So this is reasonable.
Is it right? Probably not; and they're probably going to upset a lot of folks. Let's hope they use discretion and only inspect rooms where they believe something unusual is going on.
Sounds like they are giving FAR MORE than 24 hours notice to me.
On that technicality though couldnt anyone just put that notice in the initial contract on any place and then come in anytime? I feel like that wouldnt fly
Spot the person who has never read a hotel rental agreement.
Spot the person who has a fundamental misundertanding of property rights.
Get fucked, my guy. I was polite, but youre returning fightin words.
Google the term "reasonable person" and quickly learn that any such agreement has no legal standing. It's an agreement. It is not contractual. It is not enforcable.
Not the person you're responding to... but consider your proposal that an unreasonable person Google the definition of a reasonable person. I imagine they won't come to the correct conclusion.
Well played homie 🥂
Let's break those contract down: contracts are enforceable. Unless, they interfere with other rights you have and those take priority. How? Well there's things like conscionability and consideration.
Consideration means, both parties have to get something in return. It can literally be a corn of rice, but it has to be something.
Conscionability means there's things too egregious to be enforceable through contract law.
For example I can't sign a contract that I want to be killed by someone else. It gets very complicated, but in it's most basic form, it is unconscionable to just chalk a death up to freedom, just because you found a contract of the victim stating they want to be killed. The investigation takes priority and a prosecution's case could be brought in spite of any contract. This render such a contract void.
So what does this fall under? Well there's a lot of rights that people that rent a property have and that they can enforce against them against the landlords. Some of those rights pierce the veil of the contract and therefore are enforceable in spite of the contract.
Now I am not sure about the rights in this particular situation but there is a solid chance this creates a legal claim against the hotel company.
My point is, both of you are right, but you are getting down voted right now because you are ignoring the the fact that contract law, although very broad, is not absolute, and especially in this case it might be unenforceable.
Obligatory IANAL.
The biggest point of issue, if I were a lawyer, is whether or not these terms were agreed upon (or 'not') before or after the point of sale.
I mean yeah if it's not in the original contract that obv makes it way easier, assuming they didn't suddenly agree to a second contract mentioning explicitly that.
That is, either terms of the contract can be unenforceable, the whole contract could get voided or the the terms are not in the contract. Any of that means there's a good chance the hotel is doing illegal things.
And quiet frankly, if I were the hotel I would not try that stuff, and even if I announced this, I wouldn't follow through.
Way to make your lawyers and bank account work overtime.
As a parent, I have the right to enter my kids' rooms anytime I want. If I don't do it respectfully, it will definitely be intrusive.
The hotel does have their rights. When they abuse those rights, it becomes intrusive. Rights don't really have anything to do with feeling that someone is being intrusive.