this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2024
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[–] MuinteoirSaoirse@hexbear.net 75 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

The framing of this survey is already based on an American anglocentric cultural ideal of what it means to be "LGBTQ." When examining queer rights and identities abroad, it's essential to not fall prey to hegemonic California queer theory that posits queer liberation involves a universal "coming out" and an acceptance of specific, english identifiers in society.

As Foucault theorized, even in English society the creation of the "homosexual" as an identity, rather than act, is already a relatively recent development. There are countless cultural milieus in which queerness is performed by entirely different standards than those that are accepted by the "progressive west," and many of those cultural milieus don't revolve around a specific coming out narrative or concretized "lifestyles" arrayed by identity tag like in western english "LGBTQ" movements.

The essential markers of queer liberation are legal protections--which the PRC ensures; medical protections--which the PRC ensures; employment protections--which the PRC ensures; economic protections--which the PRC ensures; food security--which the PRC ensures; housing--which the PRC ensures; and safety--which the PRC ensures.

Now what is ensured legally and what plays out in practice are very different--for instance, though HRT is covered in many urban centres, those in smaller cities or in outlying rural provinces struggle to find doctors accepting of gender diversity. This gets worse as people come to expect specific western promises of queer liberation (that, I may add, few western nations ever deliver on themselves). The PRC is still a widely rural and socially conservative (by western standards that don't consider things like food and shelter to be socially progressive) nation, however there is direct evidence that with an improvement in economic conditions within different precincts in the PRC has come a relative increase in the social acceptance of LGBTQ family members and a diminishing of social discrimination.

Queer liberation will not come from pink imperialism, it will come from the emancipation of the impoverished masses, something the PRC is at the forefront of: since the 90s, 60% of all eradicated poverty globally has been China.

Edited to add: https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-020-08834-y here is a paper you can read specifically about the increase in queer acceptance as income increases. China isn't perfect by a long shot, but by ensuring their ability to lift the quality of life of their people, by staving off imperialist aggression, they are already doing more for queer people than most places. Is there gay marriage? No, but with increased acceptance that will likely come with time, and if I'm being honest I have a lot of negative things to say about how gay marriage was leveraged in the west to defang a much more vibrant movement for queer rights and fold a large portion of people into the status quo and away from their radical coalition with feminists attacking the institution of marriage itself.

[–] MuinteoirSaoirse@hexbear.net 53 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Felt bad about not including some books in this post--I always like to recommend further reading when I can--so I came back to this thread after finishing dinner when I can crack open my library.

China's Path to Development: Against Neoliberalism, Ali Kadri is a great look at the functions of imperialism as a waste-commodity producing system, and Chinese economic development in the face of neoliberal wars of encroachment. (The Accumulation of Waste: A Political Economy of Systemic Destruction is where the theory is most strongly laid out, but the one I recommended gives a decent overview and really hones in on China's refusal of the world neoliberal order.)

For a look at some more cultural explorations of queer identity in China (including Taiwan, which is more accepting of queer people than much of mainland China) from a variety of perspectives both critical and supportive of the CPC:

Transgender China, Howard Chiang

Conditional Spaces: Hong Kong Lesbian Desires and Everyday Life, Denise Tse-Shang Tang

Oral History of Older Gay Men in Hong Kong: Unspoken but Unforgotten, Travis S. K. Kong

Tongzhi: Politics of Same-Sex Eroticism in Chinese Societies, Chou Wah-shan

Tongzhi Living: Men Attracted to Men in Postsocialist China, Tiantian Zheng

Queer TV China: Televisual and Fannish Imaginaries of Gender, Sexuality, and Chineseness, Jamie J. Zhao

Queer/Tongzhi China: New Perspectives on Research, Activism and Media Cultures, Elisabeth L. Engebretsen, William F. Schroeder, Hongwei Bao

Queer China: Lesbian and Gay Literature and Visual Culture Under Postsocialism, Hongwei Bao

Queer Comrades 2018: Gay Identity and Tongzhi Activism in Postsocialist China, Hongwei Bao

Queer Media in China, Hongwei Bao

Boys' Love, Cosplay, and Androgynous Idols: Queer Fan Cultures in Mainland China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan, Maud Lavin, Ling Yang, Jing Jamie Zhao

Maid to Queer: Asian Labor Migration and Female Same-Sex Desires, Francisca Yuenki Lai

Queer Politics and Sexual Modernity in Taiwan, Hans Tao-Ming Huang

Chinese Femininities/Chinese Masculinities: A Reader, Susan Brownell, Jeffrey N. Wasserstrom, Thomas Laqueur is a good background on a lot of the strict gender roles and their historical context that is at play.

Gender Policy and HIV in China: Catalyzing Policy Change, Dr. Qiang Ren, Prof. Baochang Gu, Prof. Xioayin Zheng (this one is more a policy analysis, but gives a lot of insight into sexual policy in China, especially in regards to sex work (which has traditionally been on the fringes of "queer" sexual theorizing).

A Society Without Fathers or Husbands: the Na of China, Cai Hua (not traditionally "queer" per LGBT theorizing, but the Na are a culture in the Himalayan region that practice communal child rearing, which has historically been attacked by Christian colonial missionaries in Turtle Island and abroad as a perverse and "queer" family form that very much falls outside of the cisheteronormative social structure).

[–] QuietCupcake@hexbear.net 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

this is awesome (both your first comment with thoughts and analysis and also all these reading recommendations), thank you!

gold-communist

[–] IzyaKatzmann@hexbear.net 16 points 4 months ago

great recommendations comrade

[–] hello_hello@hexbear.net 15 points 4 months ago

Yup, saving this post. Definitely one of the best of hexbear.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

As Foucault theorized, even in English society the creation of the “homosexual” as an identity, rather than act, is already a relatively recent development. There are countless cultural milieus in which queerness is performed by entirely different standards than those that are accepted by the “progressive west,” and many of those cultural milieus don’t revolve around a specific coming out narrative or concretized “lifestyles” arrayed by identity tag like in western english “LGBTQ” movements.

What, exactly, does this have to do with being trans or transphobia?

Because, as far as I know, differing gender expressions are usually identities rather than acts in lots of different cultures (I want to say they always are, but I'm not nearly well read enough to be confident in that!) The trans identity might be how it manifested in the West, but there are these different gender identities all over the world that express themselves in many different ways.

[–] MuinteoirSaoirse@hexbear.net 14 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

This was more about queerness in a broader sense (the survey in the article also covered sexual minorities as well as gender minorities). The article lumps sexual and gender minorities together throughout (LGBTQ) and so I was addressing sexual and gender discrimination as a whole as well. I know the title was specifically about transphobia, but there was nothing specifically about gender identity separate from sexual orientation in the article itself, aside from saying trans people were the most discriminated against.

I will also add: there actually are cultural contexts in which "gender identity" is an act, meaning the gender role is, quite literally, the role that is currently being engendered, and not an intrinsic/total way of being, but that wasn't specifically what I was addressing, I just kept it as broad as the source material I was replying to.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Ah, okay, that makes sense.

Actually, now that you point it out, lumping gender and sexual minorities together is itself a recent Western development! It's a manifestation of our resistance to cisheteronormative patriarchy within the West specifically, it made sense for us to do it so we could combine our struggles together, but applying it globally is probably going to produce lots of errors.

I will also add: there actually are cultural contexts in which “gender identity” is an act, meaning the gender role is, quite literally, the role that is currently being engendered, and not an intrinsic/total way of being,

Funnily enough, that vibes with how I experience gender. My gender is a performance I do for others so that I fit within the social role I desire. I just don't see enough of a difference to say that being a woman is something I do, rather than someone I am. It's both?

[–] MuinteoirSaoirse@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Exactly! Coalitional terminology can be very powerful in building cohesive movements and cross-boundary solidarity, but can serve as a bit of a double-edged sword and lead to a glossing over (or even erasure) of the rich cultural differentiation within (Julia Serrano talks a bit about this in Excluded: Making Feminist and Queer Movements More Inclusive, and Viviane K. Namaste's Invisible Lives: The Erasure of Transsexual and Transgendered People has some really great insights about this, and addresses--in a Canadian context--the way that the dominant trans discourse in Canada is english and thus Canadian legislative and organizational initiatives often reinforce an english framework of transgender that seeks to supplant french transsexualité)

Editing to add: if I'm remembering correctly, Leslie Feinberg's Trans Liberation: Beyond Pink or Blue talks very specifically about the difficulties in forming those coalitional ties in American organizing between trans people and gay people, and the struggle to get gender minorities and sexual minorities to see their oppression and liberation as intrinsically linked.

[–] TraschcanOfIdeology@hexbear.net 4 points 4 months ago

My gender is a performance I do for others so that I fit within the social role I desire. I just don't see enough of a difference to say that being a woman is something I do, rather than someone I am. It's both?

If you're interested in learning more about the performance and performstivity of gender identities, Judith Butler is a great starting point.