And unfortunately lemmy.ml is getting more online traffic recently.
this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
482 points (82.4% liked)
memes
10683 readers
1866 users here now
Community rules
1. Be civil
No trolling, bigotry or other insulting / annoying behaviour
2. No politics
This is non-politics community. For political memes please go to !politicalmemes@lemmy.world
3. No recent reposts
Check for reposts when posting a meme, you can only repost after 1 month
4. No bots
No bots without the express approval of the mods or the admins
5. No Spam/Ads
No advertisements or spam. This is an instance rule and the only way to live.
Sister communities
- !tenforward@lemmy.world : Star Trek memes, chat and shitposts
- !lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world : Lemmy Shitposts, anything and everything goes.
- !linuxmemes@lemmy.world : Linux themed memes
- !comicstrips@lemmy.world : for those who love comic stories.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I see this as an absolute win! The point of decentralized social media is that discussion happens across many different linked sites. It doesn't work if lemmy.world is the only big site out there.
Sure have your beef with the admins of another server, but why get upset that discussions are happening there?
It’s only really a problem when comments get removed or people get banned because they have opposing views.
Bans are fine IMO, I don't want tankie shit clogging up my feed. I should be able to block those views and the admin should be allowed to block them from participating if they so choose.
Its about tankies banning non tankies.
i realize the joke. BUT, tankies are generally pretty insufferable. Normies, don't really happen to be all that insufferable, unless you're a tankie who believes anything other than what you think is fucking extremist terrorist shit.
thats the point of instances, but idk why they show up in .ml or world in that case lol. You would think tankies would just directly echo chamber themselves, but they haven't quite done that yet.
So are non tankies. Tankies don't have a monopoly on being closed minded, being jerks, etc. lemmy.world is really bringing out the misanthropy in me today, for example.
Edit: Ugh, was just reminded about some of the things the tankies are saying. There's no comparison.
classic tankie experience "surely the tankies aren't SO bad" "oh"
Yeah, like banning the KKK makes me the intolerant one.
The news@lemmyworld mods ~~admins~~ have been banning people for criticizing the MBFC bot, so yeah, let's just keep using bans until this place looks like Reddit again.
Edit: mods, not admins
mods, not admins. you confused me there lol
Have you ever had a short look at the modlog? Users getting banned from 10+ unrelated communities with reason "liberal". All because some hater is a mod to multiple communities. Like what good does that serve?
Pro palestinian comments get removed on lemmy.world. Some people have the same argument as you but about diametrically opposing idealogy
I have not had a single Pro-Palestinian comment get removed from world, and I've had some pretty confrontational conversations in support of Palestinians.
That's been my experience as well
Have an example? It should be in the modlog.
https://lemmy.world/post/18857058
As the top comment points out, they banned Linkerbaan. You could argue it was a public service.
I don't agree with that user on most of the stuff but when it comes to israel you guys make them look like a normal person.
That's a lot of context to read through. Thank you for the link.
There's definitely not a concerted effort by the admins to suppress Palestinian support. What I'm hearing is you said something dumb that's technically "pro palestinian", and it got removed for being dumb.
i've had a lot of discussion on palestine and israel across instances and so far i dont think i've had a comment directly removed over it. Granted i'm more moderate on the position and not an extremist in any case so that probably helps my case a lot but still...
It’s important that one group of people should not be able to monopolize the discussion. I believe it’s important to the long-term health of the fediverse even if I don’t agree with some of those groups.
I agree there, but only if both sides of an argument are arguing in good faith. A lot of chucklenuts out there just want to start shit with bullshit arguments or to simply be contrarian. If one side is rational and using actual evidence while the other is blatantly pulling shit from their ass, that's not good for anything.
The real solution would be for the decentralization to be happening in the background and for the platform to be accessible from one website and to let users take care of their own feed themselves.
But then it's centralized on one website and the person who owns that domain has control over the whole
They only have control in the sense that they can shut down the website, but the content itself isn't in their control. It would also be possible to have the hosting under a decentralized entity controlled democratically by the people providing the hosting space (à la DAO/DAC in crypto).
I just feel like the whole problem the fediverse is trying to solve is admins slowly selling out and then having to move somewhere else. Having one website still has that problem of switching costs if you want to go somewhere else, you lose access to everything in that sphere of content. If the sh.itjust.works admins go crazy and start moderating in a way you don't like, you can go sign up on another instance and not lose any of the communities or people you used on your former instance.
But you still rely on the admins of your new instead to decide what content you have access to and on the admins of others instances for the same thing. What I'm saying is that the admins shouldn't have that kind of power. Heck, the website issue could be solved by having a disconnection between the front and back end.
Decentralize the hosting and make the data available to all (this way all hosts have some of the data but not all of it and you can have all data backed up by other hosts so no host can just nuke part of the website) this way anyone is able to create a frontend. So sh.itjust.works would just show me all of Lemmy's content in the way the dev decided would be best (the UI would be of their choosing), but I would be the one deciding which communities and users I'm blocking. If I decide I don't like how my chosen frontend works anymore I could just go and log in to another frontend using the same credentials because the data isn't hosted on the frontend's servers.
No admins, just community moderators.
That is literally the way it works now. As an example - go to https://phtn.app/. Photon is a UI for lemmy. That specific website is hosted by the developer and you can log into any instance. I think Alexandrite and Voyager webapps act the same, but I haven't tried them, so can't be sure atm.
No it's not, your instance of choice isn't necessarily federated with 100% of all instances. The UI you're using is loading the content that your instance gives you access to only. Example v I can't see hexbear communities and they can't see communities from my instance so the only place I can interact with hexbear users is if they comment on communities both our instances are federated with.
That's because you've chosen an instance that is more heavily curated. You can check which instances yours has defederated from at sh.itjust.works/instances
But if you look at the same page on mander.xyz/instances my admins are only defederates from threads.net and burggit.moe, so I already experience the fediverse as you describe.
But other instances can choose to defederste from Mander so their users can't post on Mander's communities, it's a two way street. Just the fact that it's defederated from those two should make you understand that you as a user don't control the content you have access to, an admin decided that threads and burggit would be inaccessible to you.
The solution I'm talking about eliminates that completely, treat the hosting the same way any other website works (a bunch of servers hosting the data with redundancy, the difference being that it's people like you and me providing the storage space instead of an all in one service like AWS), make access to that data open and let people create a UI for users. No more defederation or admins that hold power over all communities under the umbrella of an instance, just community mods and a website where users are the ones in control of their experience.
How do you deal with CSAM and hate speech instances? Those are generally the ones everyone wants to defederate from
Hosts and users get the choice to turn NSFW content on or off at their own risk (for hosting and for seeing in their feed respectively).
Hate speech isn't illegal to see, users would block communities/users by themselves.
While I agree that an IPFS solution could be quite resilient, I'm not sure that the average person is willing to put up the resources or risk of hosting content. CSAM, copyright, etc, all become more of an individual risk that you're relying on moderators to mitigate for you. (Rather than the risk going to the server hosts typically doing the moderation covering their own ass)
Additionally, while there may be decent representation of people willing to do some small amount of hosting of services (myself included) on lemmy, I think making this mandatory really limits the growth of your social media platform.
I think you could achieve what you're looking for right now by self-hosting a private lemmy instance with signups closed, and this wouldn't close you out of existing federating platforms.
The people currently doing the hosting would be the same ones doing the hosting (I'm not talking about every user hosting their own content), they just would choose to host NSFW content or not as they already do by choosing to allow NSFW communities on their instance or not (and would use the necessary tools to cleanup their storage of illegal content as they already do) and users who choose to activate NSFW content in their feed would do it at their own risk (which is pretty much already the case anyway because instances/communities with CSAM don't get deleted/banned/defederated until someone does it, it's just your/the other instance's admin that's doing it instead of you).
Isn't that how it is already.
No, each instance can choose what instances it's federated with so your experience in lazysoci.al can be completely different from mine on sh.itjust.works just like the experience of someone in beehaw or hexbear or Lemmy.world is completely different...