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This dumbass argument again.
You need an opposition party then. If you keep blaming the voters you are going to keep digging your own grave. In America you have only two parties and legit no opposition party. In this way guess what, FASCISM always wins.
Also Please honestly explain to me, how in the fuck is fascism lite ever going to beat fascism?
Bro, DSA leaders have flat out said that that is too much fucking work. They could have a seat at the table, but that comes with the expectation that they will sit down, and in good faith, do some fucking work. But they don't want a seat at the table. They want to be handed the table, all the chairs, and the keys to the building table is sitting in, and then thanked for saving the world without having to lift a goddamn finger. Obama spoke very openly about his time in office, and said that in his first year he was full of fire and optimism, and was all gung-ho about getting Americans universal healthcare or at least get us on the path to it, and very quickly learned how to be pragmatic. He never gave up his ideals, never changed his values, but in his first year he learned that he couldn't just magically sign a paper and boom, everyone's on Medicare. He had to do stuff that most DSA people find boring or tedious, like sitting down with Senators and Representatives and working on a plan together to get something started.
This place is a shit hole now. Everyday the front page is swarmed with garbage just like this. I'm done with this place.
Oh this again? Democratic Party: has our Neo liberalism, refusal to enact progressive policy, and backing of a genocide alienated progressive voters? Disenfranchised voter: damn it we told you a thousand times yes! Democratic Party: No it’s the voters who are wrong.
Hey, hey, marketing yourself as Fascism Lite: Low Sodium as opposed to Fascism Original Recipe has to work at some point, right?
Gotta keep tugging for those republican votes. We may need to adopt some republican priorities in order to get those voters, but its all for a good cause right?
Maybe Democrats could have tried doing literally anything that people wanted
Zionists are people.
"Wow you wanted the Democrats to do popular polices? You must be a Republican!"
¿Por Qué No Los Dos?
When it was the day of the general election and we were guaranteed to either get mainstream Democrat or Trump 2.0: The Revenge Tour, I could not morally justify any vote that didn’t minimize the chances of Trump winning.
But in the present day, and in the time leading up to the election, god damn the Democrats feel so worthless. Their party probably needs to be completely rebuilt even before the much much worse Republican party. You can’t have the Nice Conservative Party vs the Mean Conservative Party when the latter has gone off the deep end.
But also in the present day, it may already be too late. So keep on writing stern letters, insider trading, and raking in the fundraising while your desperate constituents still have some money and willingness to do something!
Yes thank you, this is the sane response. Sitting here in my neighbouring nation wondering if we'll be facing invasion in the next year or two, I have no sympathy for people who couldn't hold their nose and vote for harm reduction. I just can't understand why so many Americans are too blind to understand that you can have harm reduction, AND oppose the democrats.
Very true. I think we need to do our own version of the ratchet effect. In places that are solidly red we need to vote blue to lighten them up a bit. In places that are blue we need to start doing grass roots efforts to winning local offices and state reps that do represent our issues.
At this point I think it's all a little moot, I'll be genuinely surprised if the US ever has a proper democratic election again.
"What are you going to do vote for the facists?"
--stays home
"Wait..."
(In all seriousness, the two party system killed us. The first thing we should have could have fixed was ranked choice voting but they would never mandate that because it would break their hold. Also despite my joke above I did vote but I'm not going to get pissy with someone that didn't the problem is the party not the voter. Unless they voter actively voted red.)
First past the post is a fatal flaw. I really hope the UK can ditch it someday.
Yes, stop thinking and just follow the herd! That's surely the solution! \s
Thankfully I live in a state where my vote doesn't matter at all. jfc.
How many years can the libs keep this up?
How many years can the libs keep this up?
Until the collapse of society. (Three)
This is a problem with decision hierarchies. Usual election - if both parties have policies I can't support, then I vote for 3rd party knowing it's a protest vote.
HOWEVER : if the consequences of the election mean that a dictator and malignantly evil person (and their cronies) may get into power then the FIRST consideration MUST be that he doesn't get into power. So you vote for the most likely way that the calamity can be stopped.
It's shit, believe me, I know, but them's the breaks. The problem has been that people have treated this as 'election as usual'. The fact that sane people are still arguing over this is concerning.
!!A malignantly evil dictator has overtaken your government and is overtaking your country. You need to work together with the other sane people in order to stop this calamity.!!
But... Eggs!
This is definitely a liberal take. I don't agree with those who didn't vote for Kamala, but removing responsibility from people running her campaign when there are obvious glaring issues such as retracting all populist messaging and appealing to non-existent right wingers voting against Trump was a real stinker to say the least. It's okay to blame politicians who didn't win for not winning.
God, this is the take I want to see. I'll take criticism of my voting habits, but it should be proportional to my power. Democrats have more culpability.
proportional to my power
This is the thing that always kills me. My vote was 100% worthless. Completely performative, just throwing paper to the wind. My state was one of the few that actually went for Harris, my state governor is one of the few actually fighting against Trump, my city has so far done an excellent job fighting back against him, and none of the races were even really close. I'm sure there are many other people, in the other firm blue states just like mine, who couldn't stomach voting for genocide when they know their vote is just a gesture.
Yep, I live in California. Local ballots are more important for my state than anything federal level, and I still voted for Harris.
I live in the worst part of California where its rural so Republicans win 60% of the vote, and state-wide Democrats win 60% of the vote. Props and city level are the only places I have a meaningful change, especially since my "city" has 5000 people.
So if I vote aginast the Republicans running for the House, my one vote didn't change much there as the redneck hillbillies who think California is communist are a voting bloc that can't be swayed, and they never need ot worry about re-election. I still vote for the Democrat, but last elections had two Republicans for the seat, one was backed by Trump, one was backed by Trump's aids and cabinet officials.
100%
I'm still waiting for whatever the hell is supposed to happen after electoral politics has failed us, because it has.
I was told by people pushing for people to not bother voting in 2024 that voting was meaningless and that Trump would be no different than Harris. People told me that the solidarity of grassroots organization was the only way to see any real change, and that we had to reject the DNC at all costs. Well, we rejected it. What now?
PS: I don't even mean this sarcastically or to win internet points -- that are even more meaningless than on reddit -- on this site. I'm actually asking, what are we doing now that this happened?
If you're genuinely asking some basic actions for a broad and general audience looking for political engagement:
A lot of states have initiatives and referendums citizens can bring to a vote in elections. There may be a grassroots organization working on an issue you may align with. (Especially vote reform groups looking to introduce alternatives to how we elect our government.)
Following this: Don't be a stranger to your local government. At least learn who they are if you don't. Your state reps and senators, your federal rep and senators, your kids' school superintendent, the elected sheriff. Vote in the primaries, the odd years, the midterms, the big presidential tickets. And this isn't 'just vote' advice. I mean vote for politicians pushing policies you agree with, regardless of party or incumbency. Don't be afraid to third party in a primary (if you can).
Join community groups and socialize in meatspace. There may be community centers and libraries around you with things to engage with. As much as online spaces can help people feel connected or a shared or safe place, the politics and governance is maintained on the meatspace level of your neighbors. Your district is likely gerrymandered but it's worth finding out where you stand in the whole tapestry of American governance. (This one can be a huge hurdle, and I understand. Most of my community are military so progressives get like 200 votes per 10,000 pure military industrial zionism. I barely amount to this advice myself, FWIW.)
Join community groups and socialize in meatspace.
This is probably what I'm most interested in, but I find it to be a drag to even locate. I've gone to meetup groups and even helped organize a meetup group before but everything about them seemed pretty worthless. It could just be my particular circumstances or my particular location, but it seems like it's difficult to find any regular community group, and then any -- even sporadic -- activity outside of work mixers, happy hours, ticketed events, and concerts.
At one point I took a look around the area for mutual aid groups and found only one -- and this was mid-pandemic when they were getting a lot of attention and hype -- and it didn't even appear to be active anymore. I think the web link I got was dead or something.
My working theory of why this country is so far off the rails is multifaceted, but one big aspect is that meatspace is deader than myspace.
It certainly can be. And I share the sentiment as I have found it hard myself. I now have a family and kids so that takes up all my time but that in and of itself plugs me into a lot of interactions that I otherwise would have avoided.
So much of our society is built around childrearing though so I am pretty railroaded into following my own advice. But when I was younger I sought out events at local hobby shops: things like open D&D groups, card game tournaments, etc. I highly recommend it, if that's your thing at all (and your mileage may vary significantly.) But it doesn't always have to be direct political action to connect with members of your community.
Non-contributing rage bait. The Democrats were wrong. The Democrats still are wrong. And the Democratic presidential candidate was infinitely better than her opposition.
Nuance motherfucker do you speak it.