Ask Lemmy

You have to do you, OP, and accept potential consequences, good, bad, neutral. You may want to sit with that for a while before deciding.

Seeing that the PRC has secret, illegal police in the US, are known to go after Chinese in the US, coupled with the US not being a country of laws...well, you do you. Just don't do it in ignorance.

Keeping your head down just ensures they come for you a little later.

Just sit quietly until they come for you. That is what I can hear those parents saying.

Am I in the wrong here? Should I just keep quiet and not say anything so that I don't "get in trouble"?

No. Openly communicating (constructive) criticism is essential for improvement. As is protesting if matters are severe.

My mom told me to "just focus on improving your own life and stop worrying about things like you can't control like politics" (as in, both the politics of my former country and the politics of my current country)

You can do both. A little personal life improvement here and a little societal improvement there.

Make no mistake, you're probably just a drop of water in an ocean. But: speaking about what matters to you, going to vote (if possible), engaging in shaping the society, just mere talking to others about stuff can already change so much. It can change minds or at least give incentives to think about. More importantly, it can connect you to other drops in the ocean, until you form a cup of water. Maybe a barrel next. And who knows, maybe one day enough to roll over the land like tsunami. Preferrably not deadly though. ;)

Keep fighting. Keep engaging. If we keep quiet and do nothing, we will let rule those, who know how to use this passivity to their advantage.

Only dead fish go with the flow.

It is clear that your parents are concerned for your safety and well being and I don't think that is an unreasonable position to have. Nobody wants to learn that their child was arrested or killed at a protest.

However. Great change does not come from folks staying safe and quiet at home.

I think many parents are struggling with this right now. On one hand it is our duty as citizens to do something about the world around us and not sit in complacency. On the other hand that's extremely dangerous to do in the current environment. I doubly respect this concern coming from Chinese folks who may have experience with having their speech suppressed in the past.

I support you being out in the streets and making a big noise with the rest of us. But I am not your family. If you were to die, or be taken prisoner, at a protest I would never know your name, only that you were my brother who gave his life for our cause. You would have my unending respect but in the end what I think of you shouldn't matter for you and yours.

Protesting is dangerous. More so now than ever before. Things worth doing are never easy but this, especially, is something that has a serious chance of ending or ruining your life. Make your peace with that, or avoid it if you can't. The world needs dissenters right now, but it needs ones that are well seated in their confidence.

At the end of the day though, no matter what happens, I can't be mad at anyone for prioritizing their personal safety. A revolution will require sacrifice but that isn't something that can be asked of someone. It is given freely or not at all. Your parents are asking you not to make a sacrifice.

I’m talking about PRC btw

Oh... OH

Their advice is good in this very specific context as the PRC is a bit... special, see other comments. They don't limit their reach to just Chinese citizens either, my interpretation of what has happened in Canada with the secret police stations is that they might consider all ethnically Chinese people fair game

For most instances though, methinks valid constructive criticisms toward the government is a good way to keep democracy going, and unfortunately this process sometimes involve protesting. I can't make decisions for others when a social cause is more important than their own safety, but to each their own at that point so...

We're always fighting the last war. Take their input seriously but also understand that the world you live in is different from the one they grew up in. They're trying to teach you how to stay safe under a dictatorship, they don't want your life to be ruined because you got mad about a thing once in college.

I definitely disagree. I just took my son to a protest last weekend. He is 12. I thought it was important for him to understand civic responsibility.

It’s tough because police in the US are becoming increasingly militarized and aggressive, even colleges have been tyrannical lately. Criticism of the regime is becoming risky and I can understand not wanting your kids hurt …….

But we still have free speech where I live (and we’re white, non-immigrant). Major politicians joined the protests, so I’m not too concerned. I told them that standing up for what is right is a good thing, however you have to accept the risk getting in trouble for it. In case that happens, I’ll be there for you.

Unfortunately I couldn’t persuade either of my teens to go and I was out of town. Even more annoying I have a prior commitment for the upcoming protest so we’ll probably miss that too

My concept of patriotism is a duty to criticize your country, so it can improve. Admittedly I say that from privilege and low risk

Well it kinda depends. If criticizing the government could get you disappeared, then yeah, it's logical for your parents to discourage that so they don't lose you. It's possible that they lost someone in your old country because of that and they don't want to have that happen again.

On the other hand, if your new country has freedom of speech enshrined in law (and that law seems to be followed) then yeah, it would be silly not to criticize if you have criticisms.

Your mom has a point, focusing on things you cannot control might not be the best use of your time. If you disagree, then that's fine, that's your decision. I know that personally, I can get fixated on politics which will make me depressed, anxious, and overall shitty feeling. I need to carefully balance awareness/protest and what I can reasonably hope to achieve with my general quality of life.

I think it's important to stand up for what you believe in, but be aware of the dangers. Your parents probably tell you to keep your head down because their top priority is your safety

I tell my kid both.

Keep out of trouble so when you do cause trouble, no one will point at you and say "it's probably him like last time"

I teach him to question everything, even me, and I tell him when I was wrong about something, or got new information, or that I don't know something and we look it up.

I teach him to look at why someone is doing something if it seems weird, they probably have ulterior motives.

I teach him to cover his tracks and only steal from corporations, not your neighbors, or normal everyday working people. They work hard for their possessions, steal from the rich if you have to. And do it carefully and methodical, no reason to go to jail over something basic.

I teach him to stick up for those that can't defend themselves, and ask him regularly if he's being bullied and make sure he's not bullying anyone.

We have a deal if he sees any kid, even if he doesn't know them, not eating lunch to tell me so we can pack two next time.

He did something recently he wasn't supposed to and lost his switch for the weekend. I showed him how I caught him so he can be better and sneakier.

I'm not rich by any means, but he's more privileged than most, he's very humble and looks out for others as well.

I mentioned this to a teacher I had a group dinner with when we were introducing ourselves, she looked at me like I had 3 heads. I trust my kid, trouble will happen, no doubt, he will be prepared.

I guess this means your parents are from China too? If yes, then they grew up in a country were demonstrating against the government gets you rolled over by tanks. They have been taught that politics is not something for the people, the party takes care of it for them and they should just focus on being good hard working citizens. So, I would think their behavior is a mix of fearing for your life, which they value way more than politics, and an ingrained lack of faith in the people being able to change politics.
Consider this bias and make your personal choice, especially if you're legally an adult.

I recently read an article by Bruce Levine who suggests that neurodivergent people are inherently anti-authoritian and the "Normie's" basically persecute and medicate us to maintain their version of order (I'm taking great liberty with my summary).

Its a concept that really piqued my interest as I grew up in the height of the ADD/ADHD diagnosis period and discovered through experience that almost everyone around me who were also labeled as having "learning difficulties" also shared my same sentiments on politics and the world in general. I think its the reason I related so well to Punk Rock music and never understood why anyone would listen to mainstream music.

Anyway, here is that article I was reading. Pretty sure I stumbled on it through Lemmy:

Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill, and How This Helps America’s Illegitimate Authorities Stay in Charge By Bruce Levine

It's hard to say without knowing what country you're in now. PRC is an undemocratic system to be embraced, escaped, or endured, but so are PRK, Iran, and a bunch others

OTOH, Canada or the USA were designed on the assumption that you'd agitate for the form of government. If you're in either one, especially if you're a citizen, you should definitely argue for the government you want.

The rest of the world is an interesting mix of "started undemocratic, embraced democracy" to "started democratic, embraced autocracy."

Schindler didn't criticize the people in power and it helped him save many lives.

Being effective is more important than being performative.

You don't realize how much you have to lose until you do. You could become homeless or deported if you get caught under this administration.

We're reaching a point where the government is deporting green card users for protesting against Israel's genocide. It won't be long until US Citizens get the same treatment. And don't think for a second that you'd be the only one punished. You could be dragging your entire family down with you.

So unless you're willing to become jailed, homeless, or deported, id listen to your parents.

If everyone dissents then dissent can not be crushed.

Never let a government scare you

And if you're at the point where they are killing or dissapearing dissenters then being quiet won't save you from the thought police, the only option then is to take as many of them with you as possible when they come for you.

don't listen to them if it conflicts with what you feel is necessary, listen to your heart

you have to live with your self

edit: if you don't have a western nickname/alias that you go by in public, you should probably pick one up. find groups to protest with that are more westerns and avoid people with strong ties back to your parents homeland

Not a good one, that's for sure. Actually my parents are the exact same, monarchist bootlickers. When i shit talk the government in front of them, they always defend it as hard as possible and talk about how dangerous it is (It is, but that's literally part of the problem??)

Ffs, my dad literally had a co-worker ""disappear"" and he still defends the government. It's just always "thank god for what we have, we shouldn't get involved in politics"

As context, i've been a republican (for americans, i mean actual republican, not the US party.) from a pretty young age, and i still am. Which is why political debates between my family are always fun ;^)

Are you the person who was born in China then moved while super young to the US? If I remember correctly a few posts back you were arguing for not watching to upset either country for your parents exact reasoning. It’s not hard to understand your immigrant family wanting to play it safe :)

If you’re and your family are US citizens and rarely travel to China there would be few repercussions from critique but what do you hope to achieve other than getting yourself onto a list?

For America, if you all are all full US citizens than you’re safer if you’re not. If anyone is not a citizen even a green card holder you should shut up yesterday.

While I can see where they're coming from. I'm sure they want you to just be safe.

That said, it's a terrible idea. How will anyone know how many people hate the current government, if no one speaks up about it. Sure, it can be risky, and the governments most worth speaking up against are usually the ones where it's the most dangerous, but they're usually the ones that more people hate.

Depends on the extent of how much you'd do and if you'd get noticed, really. Leverage being applied against you or your parents could occur, particularly to or via relatives in China, but only if you're deemed worth the effort. I wouldn't take that risk, personally, but that's a very specific, individual decision.

The US is another matter. Sure you'll go on a list but everyone's on a list of one kind or another, we're both on one for using Lemmy most likely.

Would there be any validity in your parents thinking your concerns about this are getting in the way of improving your own life?